RJJ vs Hagler

[SCtrojansbaby]

roy had a suspect chin and hagler hit everyone he faught hard on the chin.....

Hagler never really got to Leonard or Duran's chin, and those 2 happen to be the fastest most skilled boxers he faced in his career

[gatorDelux]

he hit leonard flush on the chin plenty of times....

and he caught duran too but durran was more slipery than roy....

pluss roy woulnt be able to take the body attack either...

IMO

[Shabba Rank$]

Hagler would TKO Roy in a 12 round or 15 rounder.

pick your poison.

[SCtrojansbaby]

he hit leonard flush on the chin plenty of times....

and he caught duran too but durran was more slipery than roy....

pluss roy woulnt be able to take the body attack either...

IMO

Meh he didn't really hit Leonard with anything big. And no way is Duran harder to hit than Roy

LOL Roy wouldn't be able to take the body attack? You serious? One of Roys greatest attributes is his resistance to body punches. Even the terrible post Ruiz Roy he still eats body punches and that is from light heavyweights and cruiserweights. Roy has never even been the slightest bit hurt from a body punch that is ridiculous.

[gatorDelux]

Meh he didn't really hit Leonard with anything big. And no way is Duran harder to hit than Roy

LOL Roy wouldn't be able to take the body attack? You serious? One of Roys greatest attributes is his resistance to body punches. Even the terrible post Ruiz Roy he still eats body punches and that is from light heavyweights and cruiserweights. Roy has never even been the slightest bit hurt from a body punch that is ridiculous.

yes he did....

and no roy is not harder to hit.

[Barn]

I imagine McCallum hates all of the Fab-Four.....none of them would give him a title shot and he's pretty bitter about it. And understandably so.

Poet

I'm not too sure on the circumstances though, if I remember correctly, Hagler never really mucked him about. I remember Hearns definitely did and Duran, Leonard were debatable. I'll need to look into it again because, I honestly can't remember.

[crold1]

The problem with this match, at Middleweight, is that it relies on an imaginary fighter. There really isn't a prime version of Roy to look at inside of 160 (unless one looks to the Tate performance which was solid). He was still developing at the weight and didn't really peak until his body forced him up a class for good. The Jones who fought Castro or Hopkins isn't beating the best version of Hagler IMO; that version wasn't ready. The best version of Hagler, the one who came out of the Philly fires, had great head movement, and could switch on a dime, is too much man for a Roy. Now, put Hagler a la early 80s up a class to face the 68 lb. version of Roy, and it's a different ball game, different fight.

But that also relies on Hagler coming up and he wasn't a massive Middleweight. I've said it before elsewhere: Roy wasn't much for Middleweight and outgrew it early. He was a smaller Light Heavyweight and historically that's where he would have done his business. Conn, Spinks, Foster, Charles...those are his real comparison points and maybe Middles who starved down like LaMotta or grew out like Tunney (who started around 160 and quickly went into Light Heavy, and later Heavy)

[SCtrojansbaby]

What do you people see in the Roy that beat Catsro and Hopkins that was so undeveloped?

[crold1]

What do you people see in the Roy that beat Catsro and Hopkins that was so undeveloped?

Not undeveloped; developing. Degree of comfort for me. The same Castro? Norris eviscerated him before Roy. Castro-Roy was one-sided but brisk, more competitive relatively because Jones wasn't as rounded out when he fought Castro as Terrible Terry was.

Jones was already very good but, he got better and, IMO, developed the mental maturity he would have needed for a prime beast like Hagler after he was gone from Middleweight. Hopkins was an example of a guy getting comfortable in the limelight considering how much more advanced Jones was then Hopkins at that point.

By the same token, Hagler grew as a fighter after some close drops against the sort of serious veterans craftsmen who nobody wanted a piece of for years like Watts and Monroe. The fighter Hagler became in the run to the title, and his first few years as champion, was an ATG with power, speed, and underrated defense. Jones was a great talent at 60 with flashes of great fighter in him; he was a flat great fighter at 68 and 75.

At 60, I'll take developed greatness over just getting there.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Not undeveloped; developing. Degree of comfort for me. The same Castro? Norris eviscerated him before Roy. Castro-Roy was one-sided but brisk, more competitive relatively because Jones wasn't as rounded out when he fought Castro as Terrible Terry was.

Jones was already very good but, he got better and, IMO, developed the mental maturity he would have needed for a prime beast like Hagler after he was gone from Middleweight. Hopkins was an example of a guy getting comfortable in the limelight considering how much more advanced Jones was then Hopkins at that point.

By the same token, Hagler grew as a fighter after some close drops against the sort of serious veterans craftsmen who nobody wanted a piece of for years like Watts and Monroe. The fighter Hagler became in the run to the title, and his first few years as champion, was an ATG with power, speed, and underrated defense. Jones was a great talent at 60 with flashes of great fighter in him; he was a flat great fighter at 68 and 75.

At 60, I'll take developed greatness over just getting there.

See I would argue Roy was more impressive against Castro than Norris was. I would also argue both Roy and Hopkins were already developed when they fought. And if Roy could impose his speed and size on Hopkins(who is bigger and faster than Hagler) he could certainly impose it on Hagler