Fighters who next to no talent or naural ability but still becoome a Champion?

[BennyST]

this guy took the words out of my mouth. I was about to say Gatti, but he did have some skill in the lower weights.

Gatti was very skilled and had quite a lot of natural talent. Power, speed, size, good boxing skill and good punching technique.

Anyway, I think disposition is a natural talent. By that I mean that a guy with less physical gifts than someone else can become champion through determination, will, heart and a sheer ability to work so hard that his strong mind overcomes someone that may have more natural physical gifts.

I think that is a huge talent. Anyway, no one who becomes champion doens't have great natural talent. It's more a simple question of what that talent is.

[BigStereotype]

Also, I'd like to say that all boxers who fight at that level are superior athletes. For the most part, they'd be 30 yards up the track on any of us even if they don't look like it. It's just that there are those at the top who are pretty much as gifted physically as somebody can get and they set an impossibly high standard for the Fraziers, the Marcianos and the Baldomirs...well, I'm not sure about Baldomir.

[XionComrade]

Wait what? You think that the Klitschkos are more athletic than LeBron James? Outside of Tom Brady and Manny Ramirez, there aren't too many athletes I detest more than LeBron, but you can't deny that he could be the greatest athlete you or I have ever seen. Saying that Vitali or Wlad knowing how to punch makes them natural athletes is simply absurd. How does having a learned skill make you naturally athletic? Now I think that Wlad is a better athlete than Vitali and that neither of them are particularly poor by heavyweight standards, but LeBron James is on the same level as Manny Pacquiao, Lawrence Taylor and Roy Jones. Get real, man.

I didn't say knowing good punching technique made them natural athletes, I was saying that it was a legitimate athletic skill >.< Saying they are nonathletic is about as ignorant as ignorant gets...

Well let everyone around him punch him in the freaking face and lets see how great he is, get my point? Basketball is powder puff stuff compared to a combat sport, end of discussion. No comparisson between Paquiao, Jones, Etc and Lebron. Get real, man.

The boxers training is harder, and the Boxer's sport is harder than anything a Basketball player would ever have to go through.

[CarlosG815]

I didn't say knowing good punching technique made them natural athletes, I was saying that it was a legitimate athletic skill >.< Saying they are nonathletic is about as ignorant as ignorant gets...

Well let everyone around him punch him in the freaking face and lets see how great he is, get my point? Basketball is powder puff stuff compared to a combat sport, end of discussion. No comparisson between Paquiao, Jones, Etc and Lebron. Get real, man.

The boxers training is harder, and the Boxer's sport is harder than anything a Basketball player would ever have to go through.

So Jess Willard is athletic and has more athletic ability than both Klitschko's because he took more of a beating against Dempsey than both Klits have taken in their entire career combined.

[StarshipTrooper]

I think the problem is that people are confusing learned skills with natural athleticism. They're two very different things. Roy Jones is a great example of natural athleticism. Klits are more in line of learned skills. Natural athleticism is something you're born with: Either you have it or you don't and if you don't you NEVER will. Learned skills can be obtained by anyone willing to apply themselves and put in the work to get them. It's a different animal altogether and quite out of the realm of this thread.

Poet

[Suckmedry]

I think the problem is that people are confusing learned skills with natural athleticism. They're two very different things. Roy Jones is a great example of natural athleticism. Klits are more in line of learned skills. Natural athleticism is something you're born with: Either you have it or you don't and if you don't you NEVER will. Learned skills can be obtained by anyone willing to apply themselves and put in the work to get them. It's a different animal altogether and quite out of the realm of this thread.

Poet

Not really. You need to have ability to attain technical skills, not everyone who puts in the work can get them. You need co-ordination, visual perception (seeing a technique and replicating it) and the brain to process it.

[XionComrade]

So Jess Willard is athletic and has more athletic ability than both Klitschko's because he took more of a beating against Dempsey than both Klits have taken in their entire career combined.

How on earth you got that from what I said is just beyond me...

I am sure that Lebron goes into every freakin basketball game with the knowledge that death and serious injury is only seconds away and that the upmost amount of care must be taken while he is in game or he may very well pay with his life...

I am sure that Michael Jordan, if he had continued, would have been punch drunk and severely damaged like Rid**** Bowe and Joe Frazier.

I know that Brett Farve, had be played one more ball game, would have ended up a vegetable like Gerald Mccelllan.

In boxing you can go from alive and game, to dead in just seconds. You can suddenly be maimed beyond imagination at any second. That is something that can ONLY be said for combat sports, not any other, even football.



That man went from alive and game, to DEAD in mere seconds...



Mcclellan didn't even realize what was happening, he was so physically tough he was able to fight an entire bout whilst his brain literally imploded. What basketball player as shown that kind of heart and grit? None...**** they sit out if their ankle is hurt, Randy tex Cobb went on to defeat Earnie Shavers with a busted ankle.

When is the last time you heard of a Basketball player running 15 miles in the dead heat of summer with weighted boots and a foil suit on to make weight? Boxers do it all the time...




Is a fractured orbit, detached retina, broken ribs and hands etc a common part of Basketball? It is in all combat sports...



Get my point here? When I step into the boxing ring as a professional, I step into it with the knowledge that every fight could be my last. If I am not in the best shape I can possibly be in, I will lose. I will be in intense pain, and will likely suffer from a hand full of broken bones by the end of by championship bout and will be spending the night in a hospital. One mistake could mean disaster, and could potentially be fatal...Common knowledge in boxing is that getting ****ed up is half the fun.

When I go onto the Basketball court I know that noone is going to be looking to maim me, knock my teeth out, blind me, or kill me. I am going to run my ****ing ass off and throw the ball with as much accuracy as I can etc...In boxing I am going to be throwing my fist into someones face and vice versa. IF I GET HURT OR TIRED I can just sit on the damn bench until I can continue, in boxing you are ****ed and lose. No comparison.

[Scott9945]

What do I have to gain by being bias toward the Klitschko brothers?

I respect them as fighters and as the distinguished gentlemen that they are. As people, I hold them in the highest regard and have no animosity or bias toward either of them.

Oddly enough, that wasn't the impression that I got. But specifically how can you say that the two best heavyweight boxers in the world "possess no athletic ability whatsoever"? That is your opinion, but to me it is way over the top.

[BigStereotype]

How on earth you got that from what I said is just beyond me...

I am sure that Lebron goes into every freakin basketball game with the knowledge that death and serious injury is only seconds away and that the upmost amount of care must be taken while he is in game or he may very well pay with his life...

I am sure that Michael Jordan, if he had continued, would have been punch drunk and severely damaged like Rid**** Bowe and Joe Frazier.

I know that Brett Farve, had be played one more ball game, would have ended up a vegetable like Gerald Mccelllan.

In boxing you can go from alive and game, to dead in just seconds. You can suddenly be maimed beyond imagination at any second. That is something that can ONLY be said for combat sports, not any other, even football.



That man went from alive and game, to DEAD in mere seconds...



Mcclellan didn't even realize what was happening, he was so physically tough he was able to fight an entire bout whilst his brain literally imploded. What basketball player as shown that kind of heart and grit? None...**** they sit out if their ankle is hurt, Randy tex Cobb went on to defeat Earnie Shavers with a busted ankle.

When is the last time you heard of a Basketball player running 15 miles in the dead heat of summer with weighted boots and a foil suit on to make weight? Boxers do it all the time...




Is a fractured orbit, detached retina, broken ribs and hands etc a common part of Basketball? It is in all combat sports...



Get my point here? When I step into the boxing ring as a professional, I step into it with the knowledge that every fight could be my last. If I am not in the best shape I can possibly be in, I will lose. I will be in intense pain, and will likely suffer from a hand full of broken bones by the end of by championship bout and will be spending the night in a hospital. One mistake could mean disaster, and could potentially be fatal...Common knowledge in boxing is that getting ****ed up is half the fun.

When I go onto the Basketball court I know that noone is going to be looking to maim me, knock my teeth out, blind me, or kill me. I am going to run my ****ing ass off and throw the ball with as much accuracy as I can etc...In boxing I am going to be throwing my fist into someones face and vice versa. IF I GET HURT OR TIRED I can just sit on the damn bench until I can continue, in boxing you are ****ed and lose. No comparison.

Noe that we all know how big your **** is, can you actually think about this? All of that stuff is dedication, toughness, courage, etc. etc. That's more of a mental talent than a physical one. The toughness of boxers cannot be doubted, everybody knows that. But as tough as boxers are, basketball players are equally gifted in other areas - speed, vertical leap, reflexes, flexibility and the like. LeBron is 6'8" and moves like he's 5'2". He's a freak, just like Roy Jones with his hands and Pacquiao with his balance. Not like Wlad is with his punching skills and mental courage.

[XionComrade]

Noe that we all know how big your **** is, can you actually think about this? All of that stuff is dedication, toughness, courage, etc. etc. That's more of a mental talent than a physical one. The toughness of boxers cannot be doubted, everybody knows that. But as tough as boxers are, basketball players are equally gifted in other areas - speed, vertical leap, reflexes, flexibility and the like. LeBron is 6'8" and moves like he's 5'2". He's a freak, just like Roy Jones with his hands and Pacquiao with his balance. Not like Wlad is with his punching skills and mental courage.

Toughness also contains a great deal of genetics in its build...IE George Chuvalo and George Foreman, you cannot train to take a beating, or a concussive punch necessarily

I am saying that comparing Lebron to someone like Foreman or Roy Jones is just completely insane. George was so strong he could pull a jeep up a hill, lift a cow onto his shoulders. Not to mention the punching power, stamina, and coordination. Whereas Lebron has quick feet and good coordination/ball handling skills....Not even going to get into Roy...Not even worth comparing the two as athletes. For every ounce of talent he has, a athlete like Roy has a pound...No comparison here. A basketball player has nothing on a top level boxer, the boxer has better footwork, stamina, flexibility, you name it...They are physically more impressive because their sport demands it! People die in boxing, people get tired in basketball.