Punchers and hand size, wrist size

[billeau2]

I think it matters a lot regarding hitting with a closed fist without gloves. The very act of punching is natural to men and not so much for women who have to make it a learned behavior. This tells me that when we were closer to looking like other large upright primates, hitting down on objects, the hammer fist was used. Eventually as we learned to punch straight we developed technique characteristic of a trained fighter who hits straight.

One can strengthen the hands and wrists, but even then technique is a lot more vital than just strength. Another thing to remember is that ultimately real deadly force on a punch comes when we concentrate the force. Boxing does everything it can to dissopate the force of blows, even the way punching is taught...

Did Liston have an advantage? Sure. Liston could put more weight into his punches knowing his structure could take the force.

[BKM-]

I think it matters a lot regarding hitting with a closed fist without gloves. The very act of punching is natural to men and not so much for women who have to make it a learned behavior. This tells me that when we were closer to looking like other large upright primates, hitting down on objects, the hammer fist was used. Eventually as we learned to punch straight we developed technique characteristic of a trained fighter who hits straight.

One can strengthen the hands and wrists, but even then technique is a lot more vital than just strength. Another thing to remember is that ultimately real deadly force on a punch comes when we concentrate the force. Boxing does everything it can to dissopate the force of blows, even the way punching is taught...

Did Liston have an advantage? Sure. Liston could put more weight into his punches knowing his structure could take the force.

I feel Liston, even though most already regard him as one of the hardest punchers ever, would have been unanimous hardest hitter if he could just throw his punches with more speed. Ultimately the speed enhances the power. Though at some point physics come at play as I don't know if it was possible if a man with his built could have quick hands, he had some of the longest arms ever and biggests fists yet he was only 6'1.

Shavers' right hook was fast, the bomb on Holmes was pretty fast. Foreman who I believe is the hardest hitter ever actually had good speed on his powerful shots at times, and his left jab was very snappy and quick when he focused on it.

[billeau2]

I feel Liston, even though most already regard him as one of the hardest punchers ever, would have been unanimous hardest hitter if he could just throw his punches with more speed. Ultimately the speed enhances the power. Though at some point physics come at play as I don't know if it was possible if a man with his built could have quick hands, he had some of the longest arms ever and biggests fists yet he was only 6'1.

Shavers' right hook was fast, the bomb on Holmes was pretty fast. Foreman who I believe is the hardest hitter ever actually had good speed on his powerful shots at times, and his left jab was very snappy and quick when he focused on it.

Well... Different level different game. Lets unpack a few concepts:

1. Speed and mass have a certain inverse relationship on one level but, both of them ultimately produce more power. For example, if you weigh 100 pounds and i weigh 200 pounds and we both have a slight incline then a sharp drop to travel, lets say on a sled in the snow, you have first advantage at 100 pounds up the incline, but once we start going down the hill, my weight will help me considerably.

Speed is never used in professional fighting as an unrefined quality. This is because just being able to arrive first at a target means nothing without proper force behind it. We call useful speed "quickness" and it is the result of reflexes, efficiency of movement, relaxing and tensing the proper muscles, and alignment, because we need to have force behind the other mechanics. The size of a person's hand might well make up for any minor differences in speed with the added mass of the hand, though I do not know if this is true. What is true is that of all these qualities the most rare is reflexes that are super human. Ted Williams had them... Hence his ability to be perhaps baseballs best natural hitter, along with maybe Rod Carew. Roy Jones had them, Ali? hard to say... Ali had to have great reflexes, just not necessarily on the order of Jones.

Quickness is a craft that takes speed and economizes the delivery of it without sacrificing mass and structure. Explosive power does take speed when moving the trunk and shoulders that much is also true... Someone like Tyson for example. For hevy handed guys a lot of speed comes from relaxing parts of the body. Most of us lock up our skeletal structure when we want to try to hit something hard.

Try this: Hold onto a wall if need be, now keeping your back foot perpendicular to your body tense your front leg in a side kicking position. Then pull your toes back. You will feel like this tension and position will make the kick solid and it will to a small degree. This is the mistake most people make when kicking and a great example of how much body mechanics and relaxing certain muscles are a game changer. If you hit something with this kick most of the force will in fact come back into your structure because the back hip is locked. Now, turn that back leg out and let your back hip turn so the front leg has no tension... the kick will feel weak, but it is in fact stronger because by relaxing the back hip the bodies structure does not lock up, force goes into the target.

I use this example because it is similar to Heavy hitting like Shavers and Foreman were so good at. When the body is relaxed the power does not come back into the person throwing the blow, it goes into the target... and even the little that does come back is grounded, (it dissopates into the ground and body efficiently) it does not break the structure.

[JAB5239]

You owe me a coffee, a keyboard and a new shirt!

[JAB5239]

Yup just yesterday I saw some spooks coming out of the local home depot. I saw they had doctored tape,measures... Before one could simply account for any tape past the point where the measurement started, and ended, and subtract the extra length, but what will we do now with this latest conspiracy!!?

Ginsberg.....KEROUAC!! Mother@&*$#$!! ****. GINSBERG!! Barney big boys!!

[billeau2]

Ginsberg.....KEROUAC!! Mother@&*$#$!! ****. GINSBERG!! Barney big boys!!

And in unrelated news houses, furniture, barns are all coming down! It turns out for years tape measures have been reset! You cannot make this shiat up... If we did not have Queenie someone would have to invent him.

[Mr Mitts]

Now I found out we have been messing measuring time wrong too. We are younger than we thought. Every body is.

[QueensburyRules]

Yup just yesterday I saw some spooks coming out of the local home depot. I saw they had doctored tape,measures... Before one could simply account for any tape past the point where the measurement started, and ended, and subtract the extra length, but what will we do now with this latest conspiracy!!?

- - Was that when U was found lapping up all the toilet water at Home Depot?

[billeau2]

- - Was that when U was found lapping up all the toilet water at Home Depot?

[them_apples]

I am sure these topics have come up before in the past but I was still thinking about this again wondering about a correlation. Certainly there will be exceptions but the big punchers consistently have above average measurements for their fists and wrists.

Just some random lists I scooped up online. One for fist size:
Sonny Liston: 15 inches.
Primo Carnera: 14 3/4 inches.
Frank Bruno: 14 inches.
Bonecrusher Smith: 13 3/4 inches.
Rid**** Bowe: 13 1/2 inches.
Mike Tyson: 13 inches.
Wladimir Klitschko: 13 inches.
Joe Frazier: 13 inches.
George Foreman: 12 1/2 inches
Evander Holyfield: 12 1/2 inches.
Muhammad Ali: 12 1/2 inches.
Lennox Lewis: 12 inches.
Earnie Shavers: 12 inches.
Joe Louis: 11 3/4 inches.
Rocky Marciano: 11 1/2 inches.
Jack Dempsey: 11 1/4 inches.
Vitali Klitschko: 11 inches.

For better reference though I can't find what the average size for males is, somewhat of a failure on my behalf.

Also I wonder about the stats there since this was supposed to be a life size photo of Ali and Foreman's fists and you can tell George had more size overall:
ali foreman.webp

Don't have a list for wrist size but I know Tyson and Foreman had 8inch wrists, Marciano 7.5 which is pretty big for his size. It makes sense that the transfer of force would be more devastating delivered by a thicker bone mass.

Nothing beats this monster though.
sonny-liston-and-lyndon-baines-johnson-compare-fists-march-v0-0z8nx9gwd9eb1.webp

Also the thickness of the bones in the hand should be noted. Some people have very thick individual finger bones. Likewise with the wrist, there are 2 bones I believe, and a gap between the 2. Someone can have thicker wrists bones but a smaller circumference depending on how the bones are made up and the distance between the 2.

Even regardless of circumference you can see Foreman’s hands are not just larger in terms of taking up space but also heavier boned than Alis. Likewise Marciano, who had a small circumference but very thick bones that made up the composition. Especially in the photo of him holding Pattersons hand.