Resume wise: Who had the better Welterweight title reign SRR or SRL?

[warp1432]

Sugar Ray Robinson's title defenses plus the person he faced for the belt:
Tommy Bell
Jimmy Doyle
Chuck Taylor
Bernard Docusen
Kid Gavlian

Sugar Ray Leonard's:
Wilfred Benitez
Dave Green
Roberto Duran (L)
Roberto Duran (W)
Larry Bonds
Thomas Hearns
Bruch Finch

Title reign wise it seems Leonard has the clear advantage, but overall in the welterweight resume with Robinson having wins over Zivic twice, Armstrong, Agnott, Fusari, and others it seems Robinson does.

Kind of off topic: But who was more generally impressive against Zivic in the times they fought, Burley or Robinson?

[TheGreatA]

Robinson was pretty much recognized as the "uncrowned" champion since the early 1940's. The champions such as Marty Servo he had already beaten but they refused to give him a shot.

It's a bit off topic but people tend to underrate the Henry Armstrong win a little. There's a story going that Robinson "carried" the "old man" but Armstrong was the number 1 ranked welterweight challenger at the time and was coming off wins over Shapiro and Angott. Earlier he had beaten Fritzie Zivic and Lew Jenkins and lost close decisions to Beau Jack and Willie Joyce. He was good enough to stop contender Al Davis later on but he retired after being robbed of a decision.

I saw a clip of him training for the fight against Robinson and he looked good. Unfortunately the fight was never filmed atleast from what I know.

To answer your question about Burley & Robinson vs Zivic, I'd say that Robinson looked the most impressive anyone ever looked against Zivic when he stopped him in 10 rounds. Zivic, the former welterweight champion, was coming off a loss in world title bout to Red Cochrane which was generally thought to have been an unjust decision.

The reason Cochrane never gave a shot at Robinson was because no one at the time thought the fight would be competitive. Not because Robinson was worse but because Cochrane was thought to be inferior in every way to Robinson and no one cared to see the fight happen. Servo, whom Robinson twice beat, easily stopped Cochrane to win the title but never gave Robinson a shot. Robinson had to wait until Servo went up in weight, was injured against Graziano and vacated the belt.

[warp1432]

Wow that would be insanely frustrating.

[TheGreatA]

Pictures of a young Ray Robinson:




Robinson vs Zivic




Ray Robinson beats Tommy Bell to win the vacant world welterweight title

[TheGreatA]

Robinson vs LaMotta





Robinson vs Gavilan

[klipsch speaker]

SRR was an offensive powerhouse... one punch KO power, elegant but at the same time powerful combinations and was blessed with a steel chin.

But his defense really was very average...

I wonder what happens if fighters like Hearns or Julian Jackson landed their right hands flush on him...

[TheGreatA]

SRR was an offensive powerhouse... one punch KO power, elegant but at the same time powerful combinations and was blessed with a steel chin.

But his defense really was very average...

I wonder what happens if fighters like Hearns or Julian Jackson landed their right hands flush on him...

Chances are they probably won't. Even if they did they'd be landing on one of the most dependable chins of all times.

McCallum and McClellan took it from Jackson so I don't see why Robinson couldn't. Of course you can't let him land too many of his bombs but that's no problem for Robinson considering Jackson's chin.

[klipsch speaker]

Chances are they probably won't. Even if they did they'd be landing on one of the most dependable chin's of all times.

McCallum and McClellan took it from Jackson so I don't see why Robinson couldn't. Of course you can't let him land too many of his bombs but that's no problem for Robinson considering Jackson's chin.

Because I remember Roberto Duran being caught flush by Hearns in their only fight. And Duran has had a dependable chin also.

[TheGreatA]

Because I remember Roberto Duran being caught flush by Hearns in their only fight. And Duran has had a dependable chin also.

He was also a 33 year old former lightweight.

Hearns' power is no joke but Duran was made for him.

[klipsch speaker]

He was also a 33 year old former lightweight.

Hearns' power is no joke but Duran was made for him.

... An aberration maybe? Because Duran at age 37 withstood the power bombs of Hearns' conqueror Barkley... I remember the 8th round of their fight...

Anyway of course I think SRR has had the better reign at WW.... He never lost to someone coming up from lightweight. And he was better in giving rematches than SRL... Can you imagine SRL having a series with Hagler, Hearns and Duran like SRR did with Basillo, Fulmer et. al?

He never gave Hearns an immediate rematch and made sure Duran was really diminished when he fought him the second time....