Donald ***** was Right.

[Publius]

For one i can see it from the standpoint of an american. The thing is Laws can be changed for the better. Statue of liberty reads Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
America is a melting pot for all why make it so difficult to become one when the first ones to cross did it by mass murder and diseases. thats not practicing what they preach they never had to wait and pay fine because their offspring can just be born and enjoy the fruits of the dark history behind the first settlers.

1) The poem by Emma Lazarus is her personal opinion, not the laws of the nation. In fact, I'd imagine you'd disagree with her as she was referring only to European settlers.
2) Again, the US has no obligation to act against its own interests because, in the past, it acted against the interests of others. This is nonsensical.
3) The US never in its history has "preached" for open and unlimited immigration. As I mentioned, the first immigration and naturalization act was passed in 1790.

I'll try yet again to get you to look at it from a different perspective - the perspective of an American. Why should the US be obligated to act in the interests of non-citizens?

As for you talking about the "dark history" of the first settlers, you once again make it clear that you side with the 'other' rather than with the Americans who founded this country. Why is this? It really is quite disconcerting.

[Cleto_Reyes]

1) The poem by Emma Lazarus is her personal opinion, not the laws of the nation. In fact, I'd imagine you'd disagree with her as she was referring only to European settlers.
2) Again, the US has no obligation to act against its own interests because, in the past, it acted against the interests of others. This is nonsensical.
3) The US never in its history has "preached" for open and unlimited immigration. As I mentioned, the first immigration and naturalization act was passed in 1790.

I'll try yet again to get you to look at it from a different perspective - the perspective of an American. Why should the US be obligated to act in the interests of non-citizens?

As for you talking about the "dark history" of the first settlers, you once again make it clear that you side with the 'other' rather than with the Americans who founded this country. Why is this? It really is quite disconcerting.

what i meant about practice what they preach is that now they say do it the right way when they never had to. they themselves dont know what the immigrants go through. for example its like the people in the white house that setup health care and retirement but never go under the same law. they have special priviliges why cause its crap. why make someone else do it if they cant do it themselves is my point. Plus its not like its bad for the economy to bring them in and legalized them. why arent you in favor of legalizing them that why they arent breaking the law anymore. It its our best interest because since its such a big problem.

Whats wrong with making a work program that only the hard working ones and the ones that actually want to better themselves can become citizens lets say after 3 t 5 years of working here with no criminial record. whats it going to hurt? It will actually help and i bet you crimnal activity would be on the decline. Fewer people would try crossing the border illegally . Less lives in danger

[Beercules]

Is ***** still ahead in the poll?

[-jose-]

Is ***** still ahead in the poll?

[Publius]

what i meant about practice what they preach is that now they say do it the right way when they never had to. they themselves dont know what the immigrants go through. for example its like the people in the white house that setup health care and retirement but never go under the same law. they have special priviliges why cause its crap. why make someone else do it if they cant do it themselves is my point. Plus its not like its bad for the economy to bring them in and legalized them. why arent you in favor of legalizing them that why they arent breaking the law anymore. It its our best interest because since its such a big problem.

Whats wrong with making a work program that only the hard working ones and the ones that actually want to better themselves can become citizens lets say after 3 t 5 years of working here with no criminial record. whats it going to hurt? It will actually help and i bet you crimnal activity would be on the decline. Fewer people would try crossing the border illegally . Less lives in danger

1) Previous groups of immigrants had to come to this country legally. They had to follow the procedures set out by the US government, and if they didn't they were rejected. You claim this current group of immigrants shouldn't have to do that. So who really has the "special privileges"?

2) In whose best interest is it? In the interests of the immigrant, certainly, however I'm not so certain you can say the same for your average citizen. Immigration increases GDP, but lowers GDP per capita. In other words, while the economy as a whole becomes larger, the average person becomes slightly worse off. This is part of why immigration barriers exist, to regulate the influx of peoples and prevent drastic fluxes in population that could have dire economic consequences.

3) As I said earlier, it would essentially make citizenship meaningless. And once citzenship is meaningless, the state ceases to exist as an effective entity. Nation states are fundamentally exclusionary in nature, and they have to be considering we live on a planet of limited resources.

Again - and you are getting there, what with your talk of economics and such - you really need to look at it from the perspective of an American. The US has absolutely no obligation to look out for non-Americans. Just as Mexico has absolutely no obligation to look out for the US (which is why it is quite happy to people flow back and forth across the border).

The world isn't ideal. It is imperfect. Nation states exist within this imperfection and try to do their best for their citizens. Once you question that fundamental goal, once you subvert it, the nation state begins to crumble. This is by no means a new issue. In 212 AD, the Roman Emperor Caracalla passed the Constitutio Antoniniana which granted citizenship to all residents of the Roman Empire (previously only Italians had it). What followed was known as the "Crisis of the Third Century" - a hundred years of civil strife, economic crashes, and political turmoil. Why? Because the nation state was subverted.

Now I understand we won't come to an agreement here, but you just need to known what your idealism will lead to. To understand its downsides.

[Cleto_Reyes]

1) Previous groups of immigrants had to come to this country legally. They had to follow the procedures set out by the US government, and if they didn't they were rejected. You claim this current group of immigrants shouldn't have to do that. So who really has the "special privileges"?

2) In whose best interest is it? In the interests of the immigrant, certainly, however I'm not so certain you can say the same for your average citizen. Immigration increases GDP, but lowers GDP per capita. In other words, while the economy as a whole becomes larger, the average person becomes slightly worse off. This is part of why immigration barriers exist, to regulate the influx of peoples and prevent drastic fluxes in population that could have dire economic consequences.

3) As I said earlier, it would essentially make citizenship meaningless. And once citzenship is meaningless, the state ceases to exist as an effective entity. Nation states are fundamentally exclusionary in nature, and they have to be considering we live on a planet of limited resources.

Again - and you are getting there, what with your talk of economics and such - you really need to look at it from the perspective of an American. The US has absolutely no obligation to look out for non-Americans. Just as Mexico has absolutely no obligation to look out for the US (which is why it is quite happy to people flow back and forth across the border).

The world isn't ideal. It is imperfect. Nation states exist within this imperfection and try to do their best for their citizens. Once you question that fundamental goal, once you subvert it, the nation state begins to crumble. This is by no means a new issue. In 212 AD, the Roman Emperor Caracalla passed the Constitutio Antoniniana which granted citizenship to all residents of the Roman Empire (previously only Italians had it). What followed was known as the "Crisis of the Third Century" - a hundred years of civil strife, economic crashes, and political turmoil. Why? Because the nation state was subverted.

Now I understand we won't come to an agreement here, but you just need to known what your idealism will lead to. To understand its downsides.

im talking the first settlers obviously after that they had to come legally. You cant really compare the laws from back then till now. My grandpa was legalized many years ago and i can tell you the law is not the same it was years ago. Very strict now almost ridiculous and its easy for an american to enforce the laws of the land in that portion but the truth of the matter is that they will never really enforce or "build a wall" and protect the border because of the corruption yes in US not only mexico is corrupted . the Media and our government only wants you to believe mexico is at fault but really the US is behind alot of it. They want the drug to come through and illegal immigration. theres billions of dollars behind it. Mexico sells drugs , US sells weapons all money motivated corruption. So you can believe theses nonsense politicians that say they will change everything blah blah . Corruption makes money and really thats what its all about end of convo

[Publius]

im talking the first settlers obviously after that they had to come legally. You cant really compare the laws from back then till now. My grandpa was legalized many years ago and i can tell you the law is not the same it was years ago. Very strict now almost ridiculous and its easy for an american to enforce the laws of the land in that portion but the truth of the matter is that they will never really enforce or "build a wall" and protect the border because of the corruption yes in US not only mexico is corrupted . the Media and our government only wants you to believe mexico is at fault but really the US is behind alot of it. They want the drug to come through and illegal immigration. theres billions of dollars behind it. Mexico sells drugs , US sells weapons all money motivated corruption. So you can believe theses nonsense politicians that say they will change everything blah blah . Corruption makes money and really thats what its all about end of convo

Alright, we seem to be talking past each other so I will try and keep it simple.

Why are you placing the interests of non-citizens above the interests of the nation?

You are not a Mexican. So why the hell would you care about the interests of Mexicans? Why would you defend Mexico? I don't defend Germany, or Ireland, or Scotland, or wherever else my ancestors are from. So why the heck are you defending Mexico?

To become American you have to leave the past behind, and unfortunately it seems many people on this Forum haven't done that. So I'll say it once again.

How can America accept you if you haven't accepted America? That's the core issue.

[Cleto_Reyes]

Alright, we seem to be talking past each other so I will try and keep it simple.

Why are you placing the interests of non-citizens above the interests of the nation?

You are not a Mexican. So why the hell would you care about the interests of Mexicans? Why would you defend Mexico? I don't defend Germany, or Ireland, or Scotland, or wherever else my ancestors are from. So why the heck are you defending Mexico?

To become American you have to leave the past behind, and unfortunately it seems many people on this Forum haven't done that. So I'll say it once again.

How can America accept you if you haven't accepted America? That's the core issue.

First i am a mexican. You actually think when a white person sees me he will think of me as an american. I live in Az where racial profiling is a real problem. They see a brown person and automatically think illegal immigrant. Im mexican that what im seen here in America then thats what i am . when they see you do people think german or irish? i think not why is that ask yourself? Now ask yourself if germany was south of the border with blue eye blonde hair people coming over would the laws be the same? I think they would treat germany like they do canada. I can accept an america for what its suppose to be a melting pot. You eat english muffin and egg with french toast and call it american breakfast. You take the burrito and call it a wrap. you take a tortilla and call it flat bead. It so easy to assimilate other countrys foods but why not the language and cultures? Theres actually no official language for US so why do american get mad if i speak spanish?

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

pjmedia(.)com/jchristianadams/2015/07/22/alien-crime-wave-in-texas-611234-crimes-2993-murders/

Lost in all the anger and vitriol on this Forum against Donald ***** is the fact that he is right, statistically speaking. And this report was from ONE state only. The reason you are all so up in arms is insecurity - you know it is true.

Unauthorized immigration is a crime, in the US and in every other country. When I visited Russia I had to get a visa. That's REALITY. So of course it makes sense that those who immigrate illegally - that is, those who commit a crime - are more likely to commit other, more serious crimes.

The fact that so many legal, law abiding latinos on this Forum are so pro-criminal tells me you care more about non-American latinos than you do about Americans. This is truly saddening.

You want America to accept you, and yet you won't accept America.

God bless.

No he wasn't right. Undocumented workers commit crimes at a lower rate than American citizens.



When you call MOST of Mexicans coming into this country rapist, criminals and murders, you are wrong.

*** you and *** *****.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

You know what else is funny about this troll with this little posts. Is he won't show who he really is, shows what a coward he is.

And second, he doesn't understand the real issue and that's American companies hiring these undocumented workers for their benefit.

He should be mad at the companies, not the workers. Also be mad that Americans can't handle to do the same jobs. I know, I know, it's hot outside.