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Was Muhammad Ali Deceived?

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    #21
    I find it amusing that many posters here who resonate well with the concept of core nativeist values... Men being men, sticking to one's own kind, cannot see that the Black ****** Movement espouses the same principles. Both movements are rooted in a very orthodox conservative philosophy that includes race as a marker.

    Also, as some have said, the Black ****** Movement was complicated and caused many problems for members with public presence. Not even considering the shenanigans of the movement... Which the Black Moore movement that preceded it, did not share to the same degree, but had similar problems.

    With that said. Ali's greatness was not in any concept of perfection... Ali said many silly things, he often endorsed things he did not really understand... vis a vis just like Ali the fighter, who moved in straight lines backwards, kept his hands down... giving his trainers cardiac conditions lol..

    What was so great about Ali was his incredible talent, strength of will & purpose and love for others. Ali had a big big heart, no matter what he said.

    When Ali refused to go to war, people bickered incessently back and fourth about ****** political issues that missed the point: Ali knew better and said as much in words that IMO should be as immortal as King's "I had a Dream"... Simple, direct, something a bright child would say... Words that were so damn true that it often went over even the most well intentioned people's heads:

    "I aint got no beef with no Viet Cong" and with that, a fighter, refused to take up arms against another group of exploited individuals... A Black man who was strong enough to not do the bidding of a government that had no business killing.

    That was what made Ali so great... Not his political beliefs which were often contrived and even silly. Those words cut across it all, and when he went to prison to back them up, it showed strength of character and Wisdom.

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      #22
      Originally posted by GhostofDempsey View Post
      They didn’t protect him from anything or anyone, except maybe Liston.
      Still talking about things you don't know about and passing it off as if it's fact. I think some people around him would know more than you.


      The Nation of Islam provided Ali with the type of muscle he himself lacked.

      “Ali understood strength,” Dr. Ferdie Pacheco, Ali’s corner man and personal physician, explained. “Just like Sonny Liston understood the Mafia, Ali understood that you did not **** with the [Black] ******s. He liked their strength.”

      Their strength saw to it that Ali was paid good money for all his fights. Many of the promoters who were used to skimming a bit off a fighter’s purse and divvying it up with the mob, now faced the wrath of the Nation of Islam if they tried pulling such a stunt with Ali.

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        #23
        Originally posted by travestyny View Post
        The Nation of Islam protected Ali from the mob.
        - -Ali became the #1 financier for NOI until Elijah death.

        Only then with the memory of Malcalm tragic end seered on his being was he able to reform to a mainstream Islamic sect.

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
          I find it amusing that many posters here who resonate well with the concept of core nativeist values... Men being men, sticking to one's own kind, cannot see that the Black ****** Movement espouses the same principles. Both movements are rooted in a very orthodox conservative philosophy that includes race as a marker.

          Also, as some have said, the Black ****** Movement was complicated and caused many problems for members with public presence. Not even considering the shenanigans of the movement... Which the Black Moore movement that preceded it, did not share to the same degree, but had similar problems.

          With that said. Ali's greatness was not in any concept of perfection... Ali said many silly things, he often endorsed things he did not really understand... vis a vis just like Ali the fighter, who moved in straight lines backwards, kept his hands down... giving his trainers cardiac conditions lol..

          What was so great about Ali was his incredible talent, strength of will & purpose and love for others. Ali had a big big heart, no matter what he said.

          When Ali refused to go to war, people bickered incessently back and fourth about ****** political issues that missed the point: Ali knew better and said as much in words that IMO should be as immortal as King's "I had a Dream"... Simple, direct, something a bright child would say... Words that were so damn true that it often went over even the most well intentioned people's heads:

          "I aint got no beef with no Viet Cong" and with that, a fighter, refused to take up arms against another group of exploited individuals... A Black man who was strong enough to not do the bidding of a government that had no business killing.

          That was what made Ali so great... Not his political beliefs which were often contrived and even silly. Those words cut across it all, and when he went to prison to back them up, it showed strength of character and Wisdom.
          - -While I agree with the gist, I'm more in tune with Dr King that folks shouldn't be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

          Ali was a segregationist who reputedly spoke about it at a Klan gathering during a wave of integration.

          Make of it what you will according to your political dictates.

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
            - -While I agree with the gist, I'm more in tune with Dr King that folks shouldn't be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

            Ali was a segregationist who reputedly spoke about it at a Klan gathering during a wave of integration.

            Make of it what you will according to your political dictates.
            Ali said and did a lot of naive things. Your right that he deserves to be called on that. I just think that he spoke those things, but his actions reflected that he was not committed to those values...

            It sounds like a pass... I can't deny that. I think his age, his naivety contributed to adapting such things, more than a real commitment to these ideals.

            I was going to respond to your comment about Dr King in a separate (bit equal lol!) post, but here it goes. I think that when Malcolm X and King were active, Malcolm X was initially more justified in his actions. This was a time when there was active and aggressive actions against Black people. It called for retaliation IMO. I think as things changed Malcolm X saw the other universal qualities of all men united by a creed... and King rightly, became the dominant model for change.

            To me King was a political animal...Malcolm was truly a saint. I don't say that lightly. I was into Malcolm X as a kid before many knew much about him lol.
            Last edited by billeau2; 08-03-2020, 05:06 PM.

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
              Ali said and did a lot of naive things. Your right that he deserves to be called on that. I just think that he spoke those things, but his actions reflected that he was not committed to those values...

              It sounds like a pass... I can't deny that. I think his age, his naivety contributed to adapting such things, more than a real commitment to these ideals.

              I was going to respond to your comment about Dr King in a separate (bit equal lol!) post, but here it goes. I think that when Malcolm X and King were active, Malcolm X was initially more justified in his actions. This was a time when there was active and aggressive actions against Black people. It called for retaliation IMO. I think as things changed Malcolm X saw the other universal qualities of all men united by a creed... and King rightly, became the dominant model for change.

              To me King was a political animal...Malcolm was truly a saint. I don't say that lightly. I was into Malcolm X as a kid before many knew much about him lol.

              - -When did Malcolm retaliate?

              He was killed for disavowing NOI. Ali took quick note!

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
                - -When did Malcolm retaliate?

                He was killed for disavowing NOI. Ali took quick note!
                Malcolm's philosophy was initially to hit back, vis a vis retaliate. I think at the time it was warranted. It drives me nuts that people don't see with clear comprehension. In Malcolm's time if a Black family found itself in the wrong area, they could be murdered...by the cops. In the cities Black areas were treated like inferior outposts... the Black Panthers were started because Oakland could not be bothered to put up a stop sign after multiple kids has been hit by cars.

                When this country went to Vietnam and demanded that young mothers send their sons to die, that was something to retaliate against... The Hippies, the antithesis of warriorhood took on the establishment and eventually won.

                Today people are destroying federal buildings, etc in the name of nebulous concepts put together by misinformation campaigns. I don't get it.

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
                  Malcolm's philosophy was initially to hit back, vis a vis retaliate. I think at the time it was warranted. It drives me nuts that people don't see with clear comprehension. In Malcolm's time if a Black family found itself in the wrong area, they could be murdered...by the cops. In the cities Black areas were treated like inferior outposts... the Black Panthers were started because Oakland could not be bothered to put up a stop sign after multiple kids has been hit by cars.

                  When this country went to Vietnam and demanded that young mothers send their sons to die, that was something to retaliate against... The Hippies, the antithesis of warriorhood took on the establishment and eventually won.

                  Today people are destroying federal buildings, etc in the name of nebulous concepts put together by misinformation campaigns. I don't get it.
                  My ol'man against the Vietnam War was like most, not "hippies." No demographic study was ever conducted, but Nixon elected in 68 on the promise of ending the Vietnam War that he did.

                  What NOI did was go into the ******s to clean up wayward youth with a sense of purpose and righteousness. Thus cleaning out the gangs and drug dealers.

                  Malcolm preached fire and brimstone, but NOI wasn't getting into shootouts with authorities like the Panthers were, two nonanalogous groups.

                  I ain't U, U ain't me, and forever we ain't ever seeing eye to eye on what is obvious and tangible to me.

                  U being in the amorphous navel gazers and dreamers sect.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Worshiping the people who enslaved 95% of you and practiced mass sterilization

                    While fantasizing about genocide against the people who purchased 5% of you who were mostly already ****** then liberated you and elevated you to a protected legal status above their own children

                    NoI is high IQ stuff

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by MDPopescu View Post
                      Old stuff.................
                      Clay was woke..

                      Don’t really know what being woke means. ???
                      Howard Cosell lived Ali

                      My *** dad called Ali a loud mouthed niggy

                      His smile slays made me smile



                      We go back years

                      I tried to learn Romanian

                      I gave up

                      I felt like fredio god father chit



                      I’m fine corelone.

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