More heavy bag work (Video)

[mconstantine]

This isn't of me but from a guy on YouTube who has some pretty good video. This is a great routine and it shows the versatility of the heavy bag if you use it right.

[greynotsoold]

Who did that guy ever fight? With all due respect, no matter what 'mode' he is in, he always punches the same. I'm not belittling it, much , but i have some specific ideas about the heavy bag, and training in general...

[mconstantine]

Who did that guy ever fight? With all due respect, no matter what 'mode' he is in, he always punches the same. I'm not belittling it, much , but i have some specific ideas about the heavy bag, and training in general...

You sound like you're hating. It doesn't really matter who he's fought, his advice is valuable and working on these different areas of your game on the heavy bag will undoubtedly help you. But he has posted some of his amateur fights on his channel.

[greynotsoold]

Actually, I was trying to draw you into a dialogue. Best i could do while on the phone...
Once you get to the point where you have enough stamina to actually work the bag for several rounds, I think you should approach it like a fight. I think this is true of shadow boxing as well. This is an ongoing process, right? A fight is a fluid and living thing.
So there aren't going to be 'rounds' where you sit down on your punches, or rounds where you fight southpaw, and so on... there will be situations, and they come up real fast and move on. You always have to incorporate your defensive reactions- they not only enable you to avoid getting hit, but that is how you hit effectively.
So my point is...do the rounds on the bag, but fight each round like a real fight, where you work it all. That is how you train your mind to prepare for, envision and deal with contingencies.

[mconstantine]

Actually, I was trying to draw you into a dialogue. Best i could do while on the phone...
Once you get to the point where you have enough stamina to actually work the bag for several rounds, I think you should approach it like a fight. I think this is true of shadow boxing as well. This is an ongoing process, right? A fight is a fluid and living thing.
So there aren't going to be 'rounds' where you sit down on your punches, or rounds where you fight southpaw, and so on... there will be situations, and they come up real fast and move on. You always have to incorporate your defensive reactions- they not only enable you to avoid getting hit, but that is how you hit effectively.
So my point is...do the rounds on the bag, but fight each round like a real fight, where you work it all. That is how you train your mind to prepare for, envision and deal with contingencies.

Who says you have to do it the same way all the time? Nothing wrong with dedicating rounds to focus on certain things on some days. Then doing what you do on other days. There is something to say for repetition. Boxing is all about developing good habits and making them instinctive. So if you focus entire rounds on things like inside fighting or controlling distance and being "cagey", it will only help make the nuances of each of those styles more natural and instinctive. But I agree, you should take time to try to apply them all in different moments on the bag at times too.

[greynotsoold]

But you don't do it the same way all the time...unless you are Marciano, and can always impose your fight on the other guy...
What I am getting at is this...You create a fight in your mind, and you fight it on the heavy bag, or while shadow boxing. The opponent is always there, and he always has a plan that you have to work around as you implement your own. So the slip, the head movement is always there. Or, if he does this, you throw that shift into him and now you are punching left handed (for what it is worth, I have never trained to fight in a southpaw stance, but I punch real well from that position, just because I understand balance and footwork).
You always work your mind, always train it to fight. So you never do things by rote. You constantly fight an opponent in your head. If what I am saying makes sense?

[mconstantine]

But you don't do it the same way all the time...unless you are Marciano, and can always impose your fight on the other guy...
What I am getting at is this...You create a fight in your mind, and you fight it on the heavy bag, or while shadow boxing. The opponent is always there, and he always has a plan that you have to work around as you implement your own. So the slip, the head movement is always there. Or, if he does this, you throw that shift into him and now you are punching left handed (for what it is worth, I have never trained to fight in a southpaw stance, but I punch real well from that position, just because I understand balance and footwork).
You always work your mind, always train it to fight. So you never do things by rote. You constantly fight an opponent in your head. If what I am saying makes sense?

Doing rounds in a stance you don't typically fight I can understand taking issue with although it doesn't hurt as long as you're not spending too much time doing it and missing out on more valuable activities.

With that said, most of the things he's talking about can be done with an opponent or simulated fight in mind. He's just making the fight one dimensional to focus and refine one aspect of a fighter's game. And again, there is NOTHING wrong with this.

Have you ever practiced one move over and over again? Say slip the jab to the outside, step out, shoot the lead upper cut and throw an overhand shot then pivot out? Think about how many times you'd have to do that in a row before you truly PERFECTED it. Think about how many times you'd have to do that over and over again to not only execute it properly, but instinctively? Boxing is a sport of inches and fractions of seconds. Sparring is really the only true place where you can put everything together. But there is NOTHING iwth perfecting TECHNIQUES on the bag to develop flawless technique and execution...programming those motions and rhythm to muscle memory, then practicing executing them on the bag and in sparring on occasion.

It goes back to Bruce Lee's comment about someone practicing 10,000 kicks 1 time vs. practicing 1 kick 10,000 times. Same principle man.

[greynotsoold]

I have always worked it differently. If I am trying to perfect a move, I'll do it over and over in the mirror, trying to get the feel on my feet, and to see if I'm vulnerable as I move. Then I'll get on the bag and work it out, to make sure my weight is going when and where it should.
But I break that off from my 'workout.' that is learning- maybe later i'll integrate it into a fight, on the bag. my whole trip is, emphasis on the thought process, and how to work what you know into what you do. I don't think that i would choose to do it the way he does in that video. I don't know how familiar you are with benny leonard and his style, or what there is to read about it. The concept of constant mental energy resonates with me, and I try to convey that right from the start.
Of course, it is very possible that I am wrong. We are just discussing, after all.

[mconstantine]

I have always worked it differently. If I am trying to perfect a move, I'll do it over and over in the mirror, trying to get the feel on my feet, and to see if I'm vulnerable as I move. Then I'll get on the bag and work it out, to make sure my weight is going when and where it should.
But I break that off from my 'workout.' that is learning- maybe later i'll integrate it into a fight, on the bag. my whole trip is, emphasis on the thought process, and how to work what you know into what you do. I don't think that i would choose to do it the way he does in that video. I don't know how familiar you are with benny leonard and his style, or what there is to read about it. The concept of constant mental energy resonates with me, and I try to convey that right from the start.
Of course, it is very possible that I am wrong. We are just discussing, after all.

I don't think either of these approaches are wrong...just different...I'm also not sure just how different they are. I feel you on the constant mental energy and focus...but again, that can be exercised in the approach he's showing as well. There are different ways to skin a cat.

[greynotsoold]

I think that I prefer a more focused, specific learning phase. Do the reps then and there, you know? Then integrate it; I'm unsure about what lessons the mind is picking up by focusing on one thing for 3 minutes.
Can I make a belated comment on your heavy bag video?
Try this... When you throw the straight left, just put your weight on the right leg. Use the muscles in the right leg, up and down the right side, to crank the left side around. Like slamming a door. The motion starts at the floor and works up.
What you are trying for is a motion like the crack of a whip, not a push or a shove. Concussive force. You'll feel it.