Eddie Hearn's Big Dilemma

[koolkc107]

so i know i sort of touched on this in another thread, but wanted to put it all in one. Late may as we all know he was part of the big dazn reveal and there was a lot of talk of how he was going to take over the us market since he had a war chest of money with about $125 million per year. Immediately he targeted all the big haymon guys and felt he could pry them away just as he was able to do so with jacobs and khan. Hearn said his phone had been blowing up like crazy since the announcement and he was going to reveal some big signings by the end of june.

Well, fast forward a month and it hasn't gone like he thought it would. Why? Because he tried to just snatch fighters away from haymon and that was never going to work. A guy like mikey garcia is a straight businessman with no loyalty, so he may eventually make the move, but guys like broner, charlo bros, spence, wilder, etc aren't going anywhere. Haymon helps them outside the ring just as much inside it. Spence always talks about how haymon from day one talked about investing his money and how to thrive after boxing. He has these guys make their own promotional companies to write off the expenses while being able to make some money off the gate as well as selling their own merchandise. Hearn nor any other promoter is letting that happen. I guess joshua does have his own promotional company? So he may be one of the few that this applies to in the uk.

What he should have done is work with haymon and have him put some of his guys on dazn until it became a solid household streaming service in the states and then hope he could sign fighters two years down the line. Espn+ which is well more known and has rights to other american sports that dazn does not has like 200,000 subscribers. And it is promoted like crazy over espn and reasonably priced at $5 dollars per month. Dazn on the other hand is going to be doubled or tripled that price featuring bunch of niche sports. Nfl and nba digital rights are locked up until i believe 2020 and 2021. I heard they may get the english premiere league rights, but that is not going to cut it. Futbol or soccer in the states isn't as big as the nba or nfl or the mlb. So fighters for the near future are going to be fighting in front of a limited audience.

Hearn said his goal was for the american audience to stop paying $99.99 for ppvs and put those fights on dazn. The problem with that statement is we don't pay that much, only for mayweather/pacquiao and mayweather/mcgregor. And the only fighter on ppv right now is canelo with ggg being on it depending on the opponent. That's it! No one else is on ppv. All the other best fighters are fighting on hbo/sho/espn. So from the start hearn had a flawed plan. He said he wants about four ppv-esque shows per year. Well, are you going to get canelo or ggg to fight on dazn? If not, then it's not going to happen. But you could put on four great fights on dazn....that is if you had guys like wilder/spence/thurman/garcia/etc. Heck, thurman/garcia and thurman/porter two really good match ups were on network television on cbs!

This takes me to what i have been saying for a while during the wilder/joshua negotiations. His plan was to never have joshua/wilder take place in 2018 because he simply couldn't put that type of fight on dazn...yet. Dazn debuts in september and you can't put the biggest or second biggest fight in the world on a streaming service that has been running for only a month or two. He needed time to promote dazn so it always made sense to make that fight in 2019. This would give dazn six or seven months to get their name out and in meantime he could put joshua on dazn in september and hope it attracts some subscribers. The problem though? Joshua does good afternoon numbers on sho, but nothing special. He's not a household name in the states yet to the point the american audience is dying to see him to the point they will pay 12-15 bucks to do so. This is why he was hoping to get some big name american fighters locked up to get some good press for dazn. And what do you know, right after he told wilder's team that the fight wasn't going to happen next, he offers wilder $5 million to fight on dazn. And wilder swiftly turned it down knowing what hearn was doing here. He wanted wilder to take the fight on dazn against breazeale and then say look, your fight with joshua will also take place on dazn. Wilder wants some ppv money out of it and espinoza even said the fight taking place in the uk doesn't necessarily mean it can't be on ppv in the states. It will be interesting to see what type of numbers it does, but if it does even like 300,000 buys, that's $21 million off ppv (10.5-11 after cable distributors get their share). Dazn isn't going to be putting up that type of money.

Hearn ended up screwing himself here big time imo. Why? Because that $15 million flat fee that wilder accepted for it to happen in 2018? No chance he agrees to that in april. Because now all the heat is on for that fight to happen next. It can't drag on any longer. Wilder gets a bit more negotiation pull that he didn't originally have. His team would be doing a big disservice to him if they don't take some sort of percentage upside or don't end up with at least $25 million this time around. And no chance it takes place on dazn as hearn wanted. Wilder's side will want it on sho ppv where they could make additional 5-6 million on it.

In conclusion, hearn was not able to sign the big name fighters he needed to start out his venture with a **** and now people will be disappointed when he reveals the signings in mid-july. Not only was the announcement delayed a few weeks, but there won't be any superstar names announced which he desperately needed to gain some traction in the us market with his platform. And he will have to give wilder much more the second time around. It is super early for hearn, but fair to say he will have to tweak his vision for his six year option to be picked up. Right now he should try to sign as many good solid fighters as he can and then work with big time promoters/advisors and put their cards on his network. Build the name brand first and then go for the jugular. Time will tell, but fast car has a big dilemma in the his new venture and i got my popcorn ready to see how it all unfolds! Good luck my good sir!

no lies detected!

[KTFOKING]

I'll happily defer to your knowledge of the US market but I can guarantee you are a million miles wrong in your reading of the UK and that's the primary source for AJ's earnings. The people that will fill the stadia in Sept and April don't really care if Wilder is there or not. It's not even the biggest fight that AJ could make here, Fury would be a much bigger fight in the UK, although not in global terms.

If there's no agreement Hearn will get busy talking up:
Miller/Whyte 2/Parker 2/Pulev/Hughie or Tyson Fury etc. and the UK public and his broadcaster will lap it up. He's a massive brand here now, on his way to Jordan or Lebron status. Wilder's got very little profile outside the more dedicated boxing fans.

Not sure why you keeping bringing up Wilder's profile in comparison to Joshua's. No one is arguing Joshua's drawing power compared to Wilder. This man globally is THE guy, or possibly second behind Canelo. Though that depends on what part of the world we are talking about.

I honestly think you will be in for a surprise for how the UK media reacts if this fight doesn't happen in April. Joshua for the first time will be catching some heat. And I think he knows that. It bugged him even this time around that people will calling him a ducker when he presumably wanted the fight. Also pay attention to if Joshua signs the Matchroom extension or just starts doing business on a fight by fight basis. Remember the rumors of the three year extension worth a 100 million that was talked about in May? IIRC, no official announcement was made. And if Joshua doesn't sign that extension, he's not going to be happy with Hearn if they can't close the deal with Wilder's side. He may even threat to go his separate way as SKY box office will still be in the Joshua business with or without Hearn.

And lastly, don't underestimate the DAZN factor here. Hearn needs the US media to be on his side promoting that streaming service and him in general. ESPN+ is known by many because of ESPN, but DAZN is going to be like a foreign language to many in the states. The more bad press Hearn catches, the worst the DAZN experience will be for him.

[Holler]

Not sure why you keeping bringing up Wilder's profile in comparison to Joshua's.

Because you're talking about him facing destruction if the fight isn't made. He won't, because he has a massive domestic following that don't take note of US boxing press. He is in a very strong position.

I honestly think you will be in for a surprise for how the UK media reacts if this fight doesn't happen in April. Joshua for the first time will be catching some heat.

Very little. He's a massive hero here. He's unified, fought Wlad, the guy that every casual did know about and packs out national stadia. He's on billboards, tv screens etc and people like him. Any heat from US sources will be easily countered by Hearn.

Also pay attention to if Joshua signs the Matchroom extension or just starts doing business on a fight by fight basis. Remember the rumors of the three year extension worth a 100 million that was talked about in May? IIRC, no official announcement was made.

I think he'll sign/already has but time will tell. If I had to bet I'd say the announcement will be made strategically at the right time to build interest in a fight or a bigger deal.

And if Joshua doesn't sign that extension, he's not going to be happy with Hearn if they can't close the deal with Wilder's side. He may even threat to go his separate way as SKY box office will still be in the Joshua business with or without Hearn.

He'll likely be happy if he continues to earn massive amounts of money and he will. which would be very costly to get out of. If you're fighting live in UK on Sky you're working with Eddie Hearn.

And lastly, don't underestimate the DAZN factor here. Hearn needs the US media to be on his side promoting that streaming service and him in general. ESPN+ is known by many because of ESPN, but DAZN is going to be like a foreign language to many in the states. The more bad press Hearn catches, the worst the DAZN experience will be for him.

Hearn will take all the coverage he can get, positive or negative, because he's trying to disrupt an established market and he'll bank on his ability to translate that controversy into useful eyeballs.

[KTFOKING]

Not going to quote all of that. But will address those points here:

1. Joshua will face destruction if the fight doesn't happen. I don't care how big of a cult hero he is in the UK. Everyone wants this fight to happen and they got one pass with the mandatory this time, but you can't say it will happen in April of 2019 and then go face someone else. That will be two times the fight failed to materialize. At that point the passes are gone and you start to get the brunt of the blame.

2. We shall see if the Joshua/Matchroom extension gets announced soon. To me, it would be ****** for Joshua to sign any type of long term deal. Not saying he shouldn't continue to work with Hearn, but no need for him to sign an extension. How does he benefit from that? Hearn isn't going to not work with him if he prefers to work on a fight by fight basis. Joshua is THE draw in the UK, and Hearn needs him more than the other way around. Joshua like you said is already well known in the country and is a superstar.

3. I bet you Joshua will be able to fight on Sky Box Office with or without Hearn. Warren already showed an e-mail saying Hearn doesn't have exclusive rights to Sky and others can fight on PPV on Sky Box Office. Hearn tried to say he helped negotiate the deal, but Warren and Mick both refuted those claims. And do you guys have other PPV platforms aside from Sky Box Office? Like in the states you could fight HBO PPV, SHO PPV, ESPN PPV, etc.

4. You said Hearn is just trying to disrupt the market, but he will have a platform that NO ONE in the states knows about. DAZN is completely new here and you will need the reporters on your side to speaks good things about it. One of the reasons PBC/Haymon had a hard time was due to all the reporters killing the product in their articles. Hearn is smart enough to realize this. His plan this entire time was to put Joshua/Wilder on DAZN and hope to attract hundred of thousands of subscribers.

[Raggamuffin]

Because you're talking about him facing destruction if the fight isn't made. He won't, because he has a massive domestic following that don't take note of US boxing press. He is in a very strong position.



Very little. He's a massive hero here. He's unified, fought Wlad, the guy that every casual did know about and packs out national stadia. He's on billboards, tv screens etc and people like him. Any heat from US sources will be easily countered by Hearn.




I think he'll sign/already has but time will tell. If I had to bet I'd say the announcement will be made strategically at the right time to build interest in a fight or a bigger deal.



He'll likely be happy if he continues to earn massive amounts of money and he will. which would be very costly to get out of. If you're fighting live in UK on Sky you're working with Eddie Hearn.



Hearn will take all the coverage he can get, positive or negative, because he's trying to disrupt an established market and he'll bank on his ability to translate that controversy into useful eyeballs.

You can defend Joshua all you want but he’s seen as a coward by the masses here and abroad. Until he fights Wilder, he won’t ever gain any respect. Rich with “zero” respect.

[Holler]

You can defend Joshua all you want but he’s seen as a coward by the masses here and abroad. Until he fights Wilder, he won’t ever gain any respect. Rich with “zero” respect.

He's 28, an Olympic Gold medalist and after 22 professional fights he's the unified heavyweight champion of the world. He's beaten an ATG in Wlad as well as 3 of the top 10 HW's according to ring ****zine and he's due to face a fourth in september. No other HW in the world can boast such a record.

He's got fame, riches and the respect of the people who understand boxing. I doubt he's losing any sleep over the lack of respect from 'some' quarters.

[Raggamuffin]

He's 28, an Olympic Gold medalist and after 22 professional fights he's the unified heavyweight champion of the world. He's beaten an ATG in Wlad as well as 3 of the top 10 HW's according to ring ****zine and he's due to face a fourth in september. No other HW in the world can boast such a record.

He's got fame, riches and the respect of the people who understand boxing. I doubt he's losing any sleep over the lack of respect from 'some' quarters.

He doesn’t have the respect of the boxing world nor it’s true fans and that is a fact. He is not seen as a unified champ considering how he even got his trinkets. Wilder is the true champion and the people’s champion who is willing to fight anyone. He has the respect of the fans. Ring mags rankings mean jack here.

[Holler]

He doesn’t have the respect of the boxing world nor it’s true fans and that is a fact. He is not seen as a unified champ considering how he even got his trinkets. Wilder is the true champion and the people’s champion who is willing to fight anyone. He has the respect of the fans. Ring mags rankings mean jack here.

Good luck backing up those wholly unsupported claims. I don't know anyone who knows boxing who doesn't consider Wilder's record of defences to be bordering on shocking,let alone some of the names before he fought Stiverne first time round.

[Raggamuffin]

Good luck backing up those wholly unsupported claims. I don't know anyone who knows boxing who doesn't consider Wilder's record of defences to be bordering on shocking,let alone some of the names before he fought Stiverne first time round.

Boxing always comes full circle. He can fight bum after bum and old guys, but sooner or later boxing always comes full circle. You can’t escape it.

[KTFOKING]

Joshua is seen as THE HW champ, but Wilder came out looking like he wanted the fight more during the first negotiations. It's okay though, Joshua will get a pass for this set of negotiations. But the clock starts to tick now and the fight almost has to happen in April.