Why So Much Praise For The "If Only" Fighters: (Toney, Judah, Khan, etc.)

[robertzimmerman]

I didn't say he shouldn't get credit. I just meant I can see why people may use Toney's "out of shape" excuse for that particular fight.

As opposed to Montell Griffin who IMO, was just a flat out better fighter and proved it over the course of 24 rounds.

How could he have been a flat out better fighter when they were razor close decisions and Toney had trouble with the scales?

[robertzimmerman]

how is a guy who was the top ranked MW, SMW, and CW on the planet, and who contended all the way to HW, an "if only" fighter? because he was that talented? i really don't understand the argument. james toney is an underachiever only if you think he has ungodly talent. the guy accomplished a lot. sam peter weighed 250 lbs, ffs.

he's two inches taller than floyd mayweather and has roughly the same reach. no, i'm not implying that he was naturally the same size floyd, but that doesn't mean he was a natural HW or cruiserweight, either.

fight of the year against the top ranked CW in the world at the time. alphabet titles at MW, SMW, and CW. maybe an alphabet title at HW, but i'd have to look at the timeline and the drug tests

these are accomplishments that stand out and separate you from the the amir khan's and zab judah's of the world. and yes, james toney is a cinch for the hall of fame.

Great post.

[-PBP-]

Griffin was a tough match up stylistically, but a lot of people think Toney won and it's well known that he had weight troubles before both fights. That was Toney's downfall. Even though he moved up to LHW, he still had to drain himself.

How could he have been a flat out better fighter when they were razor close decisions and Toney had trouble with the scales?

That's the problem though. You are giving Griffin no credit and automatically assume that if Toney "didn't have to drain himself" he would have lived up to his potential and dominated. That is pure speculation and when you watch the fights play out, it becomes clear that no version of Toney would have wiped the floor with Griffin.

How would weight have changed the outcome? He was doing well in the later rounds.

Yes the fights were razor close. I actually scored the 2nd one for Toney myself if I recall. But neither guy proved to be superior over the other.

[New England]

That's the problem though. You are giving Griffin no credit and automatically assume that if Toney "didn't have to drain himself" he would have lived up to his potential and dominated. That is pure speculation and when you watch the fights play out, it becomes clear that no version of Toney would have wiped the floor with Griffin.

How would weight have changed the outcome? He was doing well in the later rounds.

Yes the fights were razor close. I actually scored the 2nd one for Toney myself if I recall. But neither guy proved to be superior over the other.

yet you think montell griffin was a "flat out better" fighter? how does that make any sense?

and we shouldn't consider that toney did a heck of a lot more than griffin, like become the best fighter on the planet at 160, and then at 200 lbs 10 + years later? considering that toney did that, and griffin did not, when considering who is the "flat out better fighter," isn't appropraite?

[robertzimmerman]

That's the problem though. You are giving Griffin no credit and automatically assume that if Toney "didn't have to drain himself" he would have lived up to his potential and dominated. That is pure speculation and when you watch the fights play out, it becomes clear that no version of Toney would have wiped the floor with Griffin.

How would weight have changed the outcome? He was doing well in the later rounds.

Yes the fights were razor close. I actually scored the 2nd one for Toney myself if I recall. But neither guy proved to be superior over the other.

I give Montell a ton of credit.

I'm just saying that Toney battled the scales and only lost razor thin decisions.

[RightJabLikeZab]

Pretty dumb including Toney with guys like Zab and Khan. Very dumb actually. Also, not sure how guys in here are trying their hardest to discredit and pick apart Toney's resume but don't do the same thing with Hopkins.

[-PBP-]

I give Montell a ton of credit.

I'm just saying that Toney battled the scales and only lost razor thin decisions.

So if he made weight comfortably, what would he have done differently to make those "razor thin decisions" turn in his favor?

[robertzimmerman]

So if he made weight comfortably, what would he have done differently to make those "razor thin decisions" turn in his favor?

You've said earlier that he was sluggish against Roy due to him being drained.

If he lost a razor thin decision to Griffin whilst not at 100%, logic states that he could have beaten him if he'd have been fully fit, fighting to his full capabilities. But I agree with you that Griffin would always have been a tough match up for him stylistically.

[LoadedWraps]

Micheal Nunn isn't, wasn't and will never be a great fighter. Fact.

Highly ranked in 1991, had a lot of potential, had a lot of hype, and never fulfilled it.

What matters is where he was and how he was ranked at the time of the fight, you know better.

Hindsight is 20/20

[IronDanHamza]

What matters is where he was and how he was ranked at the time of the fight, you know better.

Hindsight is 20/20

It's not all that matters.

Just because he was ranked as one of the best in the world in 1991 doesn't make him a great fighter.