A very very interesting NEW article about Golovkin

[IMDAZED]

It's pretty obvious there are big similarities between the two as far as their middleweight reigns go so I'm not sure why you're even discussing it in detail here. If you're talking specifically about Hopkins vs Tito and Golovkin vs Canelo, yeah there are differences.

I didn't say which MW era was better, what I said was neither era's were "loaded with talent" which is absolutely true. Regarding boxing as a whole, nearly every weight class is worse now than it was 15-20 years ago. That's a result of the decline of boxing. The talent pool is much smaller today than in years past.



You're explaining something I already know. Joppy & Holmes were title holders for a long while when Hopkins was a single title holder, both promoted by Don King who kept them away from B-hop. Similary, Golovkin had issues getting any Al Haymon fighter, Peter Quillin and Danny Jacobs for example. Golovkin has also simply had title holders and top 5 opponents flat out reject him which was not the result of any boxing politics. You could say Golovkin had no bargaining power either when it came to a potential Cotto fight this year, Sergio Martinez prior and Sturm before that. Hell, he couldn't even get guys like N'dam and Anthony Mundine to fight him. Only very recently has he become recognized as one of boxing stars, which not coincidentally has led to his first unification fight.




Obliviously Roy Jones around that time was a fight people were saying Hopkins should move up in weight for.



I'm sure that was a big part of the reason Don King made that fight, because he thought he would win. The other part, probably more importantly, was that Trinidad actually wanted to fight Hopkins and unify the belts. There had to be a desire in order for that tourney to be set up in the first place, otherwise Trinidad could have skipped right over Hopkins and went stright to Roy Jones.

I don't think Golden Boy would want a GGG fight immediately, but if the WBC actually holds firm, with pressure from K2, I'm not sold on the idea that Canelo would be willing to be stripped his title and labeled a ducker by the boxing community. Canelo has proven his willingness to fight the best opponents. He is a prideful man and I doubt the Mexican in him would allow him to duck Golovkin, much like the Golden Boy himself, who fought everyone there was to fight.



Obviously Hopkins vs Keith Holmes was a different kind of style of fight than GGG vs Lemieux. It was an ugly, boring fight. People are expecting fireworks with GGG vs Lemieux, which was not expected in the Hopkins fight. A better comparison was the Trinidad vs Joppy PPV.

I'll respond tonight.

[Doctor_Tenma]

if you think GGG-Lemieux, Chocolatito-Viloria, and 2 other fights isnt worth $50, then I dont know what to tell you.

Maybe a dvd of Floyd-Berto, a bottle of Jergens, and 2 rolls of paper towels would be more in your wheelhouse.....

So when one expresses how low quality of a fight Golovkin-Lemieux is, it automatically means they purchased Mayweather-Berto? IUt's comical because this is the second time I've seen this assumption. Did it ever occur to you that maybe, Lemieux getting blasted out in the early rounds isn't worth 50 bucks?

We're talking about a fighter here who makes a lot of technical mistakes, doesn't have a chin, doesn't apply pressure behind a jab, Ward even noted his lack of a good jab when commentating the Rosado fight. And most importantly, a fighter who can't adjust, evidence by his two loses.

Maybe financially you got it like that, you straight ballin' I suppose.

[OnePunch]

So when one expresses how low quality of a fight Golovkin-Lemieux is, it automatically means they purchased Mayweather-Berto? IUt's comical because this is the second time I've seen this assumption. Did it ever occur to you that maybe, Lemieux getting blasted out in the early rounds isn't worth 50 bucks?

We're talking about a fighter here who makes a lot of technical mistakes, doesn't have a chin, doesn't apply pressure behind a jab, Ward even noted his lack of a good jab when commentating the Rosado fight. And most importantly, a fighter who can't adjust, evidence by his two loses.

Maybe financially you got it like that, you straight ballin' I suppose.

And thats where the disagreement is. To many of us, its NOT a low quality fight. Its guaranteed fireworks, featuring a fighter we enjoy watching. Sure, Lemieux is the underdog, but his losses were some time ago and the dude can crack for real. If he lands something clean, nobody knows what will happen. Combine that with Chocolatito-Viloria, and I feel its well worth 50 bucks, and I'm happy to support the event. If you dont feel it is, then dont buy it. You can find a stream or come here and read the round by round for free.......

The beauty of choice........

[Roy Keane]

GGG is the best middle weight its not even debatable. I don't think personally him destroying Cotto or Canelo does much for his resume.

[Doctor_Tenma]

And thats where the disagreement is. To many of us, its NOT a low quality fight. Its guaranteed fireworks, featuring a fighter we enjoy watching. Sure, Lemieux is the underdog, but his losses were some time ago and the dude can crack for real. If he lands something clean, nobody knows what will happen. Combine that with Chocolatito-Viloria, and I feel its well worth 50 bucks, and I'm happy to support the event. If you dont feel it is, then dont buy it. You can find a stream or come here and read the round by round for free.......

The beauty of choice........

I've seen that 'IF' plenty and it's usually with punchers, Golovkin may have gotten touched up more than he should have in his last two fights but I don't see it happening against Lemieux, especially Lemieux who again possesses no jab to set up his shots.

Don't get me wrong though, I will watch, not ashamed to admit that I'm good with streams.

[rajaomair]

I'll post this again, for you...

As about GGG's "resume", read this one again:



Add Canelo Alvarez to this list. Canelo is fighting at 155 for two years now, thus refusing to act like the true "middleweight" he really is.

Read it again, its there

[IMDAZED]

It's pretty obvious there are big similarities between the two as far as their middleweight reigns go so I'm not sure why you're even discussing it in detail here. If you're talking specifically about Hopkins vs Tito and Golovkin vs Canelo, yeah there are differences.

I didn't say which MW era was better, what I said was neither era's were "loaded with talent" which is absolutely true. Regarding boxing as a whole, nearly every weight class is worse now than it was 15-20 years ago. That's a result of the decline of boxing. The talent pool is much smaller today than in years past.



You're explaining something I already know. Joppy & Holmes were title holders for a long while when Hopkins was a single title holder, both promoted by Don King who kept them away from B-hop. Similary, Golovkin had issues getting any Al Haymon fighter, Peter Quillin and Danny Jacobs for example. Golovkin has also simply had title holders and top 5 opponents flat out reject him which was not the result of any boxing politics. You could say Golovkin had no bargaining power either when it came to a potential Cotto fight this year, Sergio Martinez prior and Sturm before that. Hell, he couldn't even get guys like N'dam and Anthony Mundine to fight him. Only very recently has he become recognized as one of boxing stars, which not coincidentally has led to his first unification fight.




Obliviously Roy Jones around that time was a fight people were saying Hopkins should move up in weight for.



I'm sure that was a big part of the reason Don King made that fight, because he thought he would win. The other part, probably more importantly, was that Trinidad actually wanted to fight Hopkins and unify the belts. There had to be a desire in order for that tourney to be set up in the first place, otherwise Trinidad could have skipped right over Hopkins and went stright to Roy Jones.

I don't think Golden Boy would want a GGG fight immediately, but if the WBC actually holds firm, with pressure from K2, I'm not sold on the idea that Canelo would be willing to be stripped his title and labeled a ducker by the boxing community. Canelo has proven his willingness to fight the best opponents. He is a prideful man and I doubt the Mexican in him would allow him to duck Golovkin, much like the Golden Boy himself, who fought everyone there was to fight.



Obviously Hopkins vs Keith Holmes was a different kind of style of fight than GGG vs Lemieux. It was an ugly, boring fight. People are expecting fireworks with GGG vs Lemieux, which was not expected in the Hopkins fight. A better comparison was the Trinidad vs Joppy PPV. Or worse were all the Mike Tyson vs no hopers that people LOVED to watch. Again, you may not find the value in this fight but many others do. Golovkin being a significant odds favorite isn't much of a representation to the value of entertainment, as it rarely was with a Mayweather, Pacquiao or Tyson fight, or all those who ordered the Trinidad Hopkins PPV despite Trinidad being a big favorite.

Further, I don't know what your crystal ball is telling you, maybe you think Golovkin will win with the first punch of the opening round. Myself, I expect a solid back and forth competitive fight, highly entertaining and I don't think Golovkin walks through him completely untested. I think people are selling Lemieux short here based on his two losses from four or so years ago. Dude has legit power and some decent skills. This is going to be a fight.

I feel like you're proving my point. You say that there are a lot of similarities. Well yeah, to the extent that both are world middleweight champs who are being avoided. But that's where it ends.

You admit that the middleweight talent pool isn't as talented now (I don't think it's anywhere close and I didn't think it was spectacular during Hopkins' time). But...I pointed that out as a difference. So then you agree that it's different. So color me unimpressed when the likes of David Lemieux warrant a PPV headliner.

I mentioned that Hopkins had nowhere else to turn. You bring up Roy Jones. Except...he was the undisputed champ two divisions up. Yet Hopkins tried to make the fight. Golovkin won't even look one division up.

Look, you don't have to sell me on GGG-Lemieux being potentially exciting. Yeah so could a lot of fights. Doesn't mean they should be headlining a PPV. And Golovkin steamrolls Lemieux on his worst day. I mean, the Willie Monroe fight had its moments but I wouldn't wanna see that **** on PPV. I'm expecting this to be equally competitive.

[MDPopescu]

Read it again, its there

I've already made the correction hours ago.

[VatoMulatto]

What he said about Mayweather is interesting. I have also noticed something odd about him. Like, his persona is all acted out; it's unatural. I guess it's ike Berto said, that's no the real Mayweather on tv.

You think that's an interesting thought? It took you this long to notice that? C'mon now, everybody knows that Floyd has done a very good job to create that kind of image. His image is part of his success it also a way to protect himself. Nobody really knows the real Floyd.

[ИATAS]

I feel like you're proving my point. You say that there are a lot of similarities. Well yeah, to the extent that both are world middleweight champs who are being avoided. But that's where it ends.

-both were avoided for years before getting their first unification fight once in their 30's (B-hop 36, GGG 33).
-both had two big stars coming up from lower weight classes (Tito/Oscar, Cotto/Canelo) that they had their eyes on.
-both had a lot of title defenses, typically against the top ten guys, while attempting to unify (in the end bhop had 20 total, GGG is in the teens somewhere).
-both had their eyes set on unifying the division early on.
-both TALKED about fighting outside of the division to get bigger names, neither did until after their unification fights (assuming GGG does), Hopkins was calling out a lot of 154 pound guys like Vargas, etc., GGG was interested in Chavez/Froch at 168.
-both were the victim of boxing politics preventing bigger fights sooner (Hopkins with unification fights (Joppy, Holmes, can't think of the third guy right now two names I'm forgetting )) and Golovkin with Sturm (WBA never enforcing mando for over 2 years) and Quillin when he was a title holder (haymon/hbo).

Probably more I'm leaving out but you get the picture.

You admit that the middleweight talent pool isn't as talented now (I don't think it's anywhere close and I didn't think it was spectacular during Hopkins' time). But...I pointed that out as a difference. So then you agree that it's different. So color me unimpressed when the likes of David Lemieux warrant a PPV headliner.

I think the talent pool was deeper, meaning there were probably more decent fighters than there are now as a whole (true for any weight class). I don't think the division was all that much different when you compare the top 20 guys though. I think it's very similar. I mean Hopkins had a title defense against Morrade Hakkar for crying out-loud, who was a mandatory.

The best guys back then were Antwun Echols, William Joppy, Robert Allen and Howard Eastman. Let's not pretend this is light years ahead of Golovkin, Andy Lee, David Lemieux and Peter Quillin. I'd favor GGG over all of those guys, Andy Lee could probably win against two, And Quillin, well kinda depends on which Quillin is fighting (I think he's regressed over the past couple years). Even if you disagree and say dude, Robert Allen pwns all of them bro, the difference is pretty minimal of the top guys of both eras (minus Hopkins, who schools everyone I mentioned on the same ****ing night).

I mentioned that Hopkins had nowhere else to turn. You bring up Roy Jones. Except...he was the undisputed champ two divisions up. Yet Hopkins tried to make the fight. Golovkin won't even look one division up.

Hopkins talked about making the fight, said 50/50 or no deal. Point was, Hopkins wasn't going to move up in weight unless he thought it was worth it to him. He passed on 60/40 because it wasn't worth it to him at that time. The exact same thing has been said regarding GGG and Ward - K2/GGG have said if Ward wanted a fight now, 50/50 or no deal because it's not worth it to them yet. Down the road yes, but right now with two unification fights ahead of him, no.

Look, you don't have to sell me on GGG-Lemieux being potentially exciting. Yeah so could a lot of fights. Doesn't mean they should be headlining a PPV. And Golovkin steamrolls Lemieux on his worst day. I mean, the Willie Monroe fight had its moments but I wouldn't wanna see that **** on PPV. I'm expecting this to be equally competitive.

I'm not trying to sell you at all. I'm explaining my view of it. I don't care one way or another if you like or dislike this fight. We disagree on how competitive we think the fight will be, and that's probably what it boils down to.