Mayweather's IV injection (Master thread)

[original zero]

Rath -

You have not proven Floyd wasn't dehydrated. You have offered conspiracy theories.

NSAC rules must be followed regardless of any voluntary additional third party obligations.

I don't have to prove Floyd was dehydrated. IV was legal in Nevada for any reason and Floyd & Manny voluntarily agreed to hire USADA to determine if any IV use was legitimate. USADA says it was legitimate. So there's really nothing else to discuss.

DCO doesn't have to diagnose anything. That's why retroactive TUEs exist, so all medical information can be turned over and considered by USADA at a later date.

I've addressed your timeline many times. You just choose to ignore any information you don't like and since English is not your first language, you tend to misinterpret things anyway.

If Floyd gave his sample at 8:15, it's reasonable to assume the IV was being administered at 7:45. But nobody ever said it STARTED being administered at 7:45. An IV can take several hours.

That is why I've been laughing at your math.

You can demand all you want to know the exact time the paramedic was called or the exact time the infusion began, but none of us have that information and that information is irrelevant.

Just because you ask questions we can't answer doesn't mean the answers support your conspiracy.

[ADP02]

It doesn't bother me that he said severely dehydrated. Not sure why that is a big issue. The issue is whether he fits into the ISTUE guidelines. That's it. Did he have an acute or chronic condition that if left untreated would cause significant impairment to his health. This is a question that I cannot answer. It's also clear that this is a question that you cannot answer.


We've already gone through this. We don't know at what point he became dehydrated, we can't say that the dehydration was ever treated until the administration of the IV. That is why it is completely possible that he experienced chronic dehydration and remained dehydrated as he had to maintain his weight. Without having his medical records, no one knows what about his situation would make USADA deem his health to possibly become significantly impaired without the IV.

Dehydration? Why I bring up mild, moderate, severe? Because so does WADA!

WADA
Legitimate medical indications for IV infusions are well documented and are
most commonly associated with either medical emergencies or in-patient care.
When an IV infusion is administered to an athlete, the following criteria should be fulfilled:

1. A clearly defined diagnosis.
2. Supportive evidence that no permitted alternative treatment can be used.

3. The treatment has been ordered by a physician ? and administered by qualified medical personnel in an appropriate medical setting.
Something tells me that it was Dr Ariza or another Floyd doctor!

4. Adequate medical records of the treatment.
The use of IV infusions in sport is commonly linked with rehydration after exhaustive effort, and this situation is arguably the major cause of debate. It must be understood that the use of IV fluid replacement following exercise to correct mild to moderate dehydration is not clinically indicated nor substantiated by the medical literature. There is a well-established body of scientific evidence to confirm that oral rehydration is the preferred the****utic choice, potentially even more effective than IV infusion.

Lance is not relevant.

"Anecdotal fallacy ?using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of sound reasoning or compelling evidence."

Maywearther gave a partial urine sample before the IV, took more stringent tests than Lance, and took a blood and urine test the next day.

Like I said, when bring up questions of "how can it be that Floyd did that if ....", then Lance's name comes up but do not confuse. Even today, its still an issue.

Using IVs mask so that all that stuff like Biological passport and so on cannot capture true results.



.

[Spoon23]

ADP02 topics that will incremenate Froid is not relevant here according to Fl0mos.

Get in the program! hahaha

[ADP02]

he'll ignore this, he's not good in calculation.

i asked him how many drip/drop per second there are in a 50ml/minute flow rate and he can not answer that too.

Lets see if he gets it. He had admitted too that Floyd was drinking a lot.


and if Floyd had a big issue with this, why not drink a bit before weigh in? He had a full 1lb to play with.

Floyd has come in the past at 146.5 and even at 147. Its easy to understand but he has Ariza to explain it to him.

[ADP02]

ADP02 topics that will incremenate Froid is not relevant here according to Fl0mos.

Get in the program! hahaha

They do not like what I say and thinks its BS. Then I say that those are USADA's own words and then they deflect.


USADA says to monitor your weight before and after.
For every pound, drink 3 cups of fluids.

Floyd weighed 146 at weigh in. 149 on fight night.

So all that Floyd had to do was drink!!!

[travestyny]

They are not catching more now than before. How many boxers have USADA caught? Not many but the point is that the percentage of those caught is still low.

Does that mean less are doping? Could be.

Does it necessarily mean that USADA's methods are unworthy? Furthermore, does it mean that Floyd Mayweather was using PED's? Nope.

The point is that he did not rehydrate back to 160s. It was just a few pounds.

FLoyd weighed 146. USADA said drink 3 cups per pound lost.

Not sure what this waving thing is. Hello By the way, you mention he rehydrated to 149. Was he back to his normal walking around weight? What do you think? I personally don't think so. Furthermore:

"For moderate or severe cases of dehydration, the body may not respond to attempts to rehydrate orally. A doctor, or emergency medical professionals, can decide whether IV rehydration is needed. Adults may become dehydrated from being sick or from exercising vigorously without drinking enough water."

"The type of fluid solution required is determined by a medical professional. It usually depends on a patient�s age, existing medical conditions, and severity of dehydration."

You admitted and saw that Floyd was drinking quite a bit. That bottle was maybe 1.5 liters? Lets say he drank .9 liters that would make it about 2lbs

1 liter = 2.2lbs


Weighed in at 146 + 2 = 148.


Remember that Floyd could have eat and drink more than what we saw and admitted that he did. Sure, some of that could have been right after the IV but then why the IV?

"For moderate or severe cases of dehydration, the body may not respond to attempts to rehydrate orally. A doctor, or emergency medical professionals, can decide whether IV rehydration is needed. Adults may become dehydrated from being sick or from exercising vigorously without drinking enough water."



I already responded about Lance. No need to go there anymore. But, if you'd like to read up about EPO and micro-dosing, I'd suggest you go here:

"Improved detection of EPO in blood and urine based on novel Velum SAR precast horizontal gels optimized for routine analysis"

[Spoon23]

They do not like what I say and thinks its BS. Then I say that those are USADA's own words and then they deflect.


USADA says to monitor your weight before and after.
For every pound, drink 3 cups of fluids.

Floyd weighed 146 at weigh in. 149 on fight night.

So all that Floyd had to do was drink!!!

You have so much patience with these kids. Having to argue with them like a merry go round that never ends takes patience and understanding.

Your wisdom is infinite. For that I salute!

[travestyny]

he'll ignore this, he's not good in calculation.

i asked him how many drip/drop per second there are in a 50ml/minute flow rate and he can not answer that too.

a typical 250 ml of IV flow rate in an emergency setting takes 2-4 hours to finish.

hows that possible?

spin that.

1L of IV Fluids will infuse at -
20g IV @ 50 ml/min
18g IV @ 90 ml/min
16g IV @ 150 ml/min
14g IV @ 300 ml/min
12g IV @ 450 ml/min
10g IV @ 600 ml/min

These rates are approximate and are the max that the catheter will infuse.

So, if I had a well placed 14g x 1" IV access with effort (pressure bag, manual effort) I could easily dump a liter in over 5 minutes.


For 1 liter:
The drip took about 40 minutes. Check out that massive bag. I couldn't believe the entire thing was going to fit inside my veins. Gross.


From a study pointed out by your boy ADPO2:
"After taking the first blood sample the infusion system was opened and 500 ml of physiological saline was infused in 10 ?13 minutes (range)."



What did you have to say? 250ml in 2-4 hours? Looks like I'm better in calculation than you are. Now admit that you are wrong, and walk away.

[Rath]

Rath -

You have not proven Floyd wasn't dehydrated. You have offered conspiracy theories.

i did and it was a fact and not conspiracy just like you said.

1. Floyd filled up and signed pre fight medical form where he said he was fit and in tip top shape for the fight - was that a conspiracy theory?

2. NSAC doctor who have examined and diganosed him before tha fight says exactly the same thing Floyd said in his pre fight medical form. floy is fine and healthy for the fight. - was that a conspiracy theory?

3. Floyd has never been recorded to suffer dehydration @146lbs all of his welter weight career before and even after Pac fight. - is this a conspiracy theory?

you don't want to believe that NSAC doctor a certified person to deal with dehydration, yet you believed USADA DCO staff? is it safe to say this belongs to genius floyd fan logic?



NSAC rules must be followed regardless of any voluntary additional third party obligations.

you keep insisting that USADA was voluntary and additional testing agency

but there were no other agency testing both Floyd and Pac besides them?

it was not voluntary, Floyd demanded USADA testing, Pac has to agree or there will be no fight. is that you definition of voluntary?

who said NSAC rules woll not be followed? but that is the implementation of fines and penalties for erring party/ies not the drug testing rules per se.



I don't have to prove Floyd was dehydrated. IV was legal in Nevada for any reason and Floyd & Manny voluntarily agreed to hire USADA to determine if any IV use was legitimate. USADA says it was legitimate. So there's really nothing else to discuss.

you have to prove it, why?

i said Floyd was dehydrated, you said he was.

you said i have to prove what i said and i did, now you have to prove what you said or you can not?

DCO doesn't have to diagnose anything. That's why retroactive TUEs exist, so all medical information can be turned over and considered by USADA at a later date.

What medical information are they going to turn over when there were no diagnostic examination made?

were there a medical form that USADA DCO filled signed authenticated and certified by who knows who, that can verify what kind of medical information they turned over? you are digging yourself here deeper and deeper.

I've addressed your timeline many times. You just choose to ignore any information you don't like and since English is not your first language, you tend to misinterpret things anyway.

it was not my timeline it was yours.

1:45PM USADA "notified Floyd that they were in the house - you time not mine

IV was administered 6 hours after they (USADA) arrived - your time not mine which will be 1:45PM + 6 hour = 7:45PM PM my time not yours prove it wrong.

8:15PM USADA left Floyd's house your time not mine

7:45 pm- 8:15PM =30 minutes. my time not yours, prove me wrong

now tell us how floyd/USADA were able to do all this in 30 minutes flat.

IV set up, 750 ml IV consumed, set up removal, pissing and collecting. papaer works.

If Floyd gave his sample at 8:15,

Then USADA might have left 8:16 at the earliest LOL

it's reasonable to assume the IV was being administered at 7:45. But nobody ever said it STARTED being administered at 7:45.

it was you who said IV was administered 6 hours later would that mean 6:45 pm or 7:23 PM? LOL i just wonder how you tried to spin it.

An IV can take several hours.

then what time was Floyd able to finish all 750 ml IV solution?

That is why I've been laughing at your math.

all the time provided was from you, prove that there was wrong in addition or subtraction or division in my calculation. laughable you say

You can demand all you want to know the exact time the paramedic was called or the exact time the infusion began, but none of us have that information and that information is irrelevant.

just like you said time was irrelevant when i first ask them to you?

Just because you ask questions we can't answer doesn't mean the answers support your conspiracy.

there is a difference between an not answer and ignoring or avoiding them atogether

you keep using "reasonable to assume"

then assume resasonably and present your time line.

or spin it whatever rings your bell.

[travestyny]

Dehydration? Why I bring up mild, moderate, severe? Because so does WADA!

WADA
Legitimate medical indications for IV infusions are well documented and are
most commonly associated with either medical emergencies or in-patient care.
When an IV infusion is administered to an athlete, the following criteria should be fulfilled:

1. A clearly defined diagnosis.
2. Supportive evidence that no permitted alternative treatment can be used.

3. The treatment has been ordered by a physician ? and administered by qualified medical personnel in an appropriate medical setting.
Something tells me that it was Dr Ariza or another Floyd doctor!

4. Adequate medical records of the treatment.
The use of IV infusions in sport is commonly linked with rehydration after exhaustive effort, and this situation is arguably the major cause of debate. It must be understood that the use of IV fluid replacement following exercise to correct mild to moderate dehydration is not clinically indicated nor substantiated by the medical literature. There is a well-established body of scientific evidence to confirm that oral rehydration is the preferred the****utic choice, potentially even more effective than IV infusion.




Like I said, when bring up questions of "how can it be that Floyd did that if ....", then Lance's name comes up but do not confuse. Even today, its still an issue.

Using IVs mask so that all that stuff like Biological passport and so on cannot capture true results.



.

How is any of this relevant? What you are posting just proves that you need the medical records. Thanks

What are the facts of this case?
1. He took a 750ml IV
2. It was approved by USADA
3. It couldn't mask tests taken the next day.
4. He gave a partial urine sample before the IV.
5. He passed 19 drug tests.


What are your accusations for which you have no proof for?
1. He wasn't severely dehydrated (yet the ISTUE doesn't mention that he had to be).
2. He micro-dosed (No proof)
3. He masked (No proof)
4. He paid off USADA (No proof)
6. He masked again. (No proof)
7. Lance did it, so Mayweather did it (Anecdotal fallacy ?using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of sound reasoning or compelling evidence.)


This is quite clear.