Comments Thread For: Margules Reacts To Top Rank/Golden Boy Claims on PBC

[Teetotaler]

haha did he really say TR fighters want to fight on espn and ****ing spike? Where the ratings are pretty much similar? Hell even on cbs they only get a hundred thousand more views and that's on free tv

[OnePunch]

I don't think Haymon gets to define the term, legally.

Exactly. Its like a dentist deciding he doesnt need to be licensed as a dentist or obey dentist regulations because he calls himself a "tooth consultant" lol

[peplz]

Tell that to the judge. That's a terrible argument. The law is clear you can't act as promoter and manager because there is a conflict of interest that has potential risk to hurt fighters. What you are saying is right now you think there is no harm on the fighters so lets ignore the fact that what Haymon is doing is illegal (acting as manager and promoter). And even if you prove he hasn't harmed the fighters right now with this arrangement there is no way to prove that going forward this might change and he could end up abusing or harming fighters. That's like driving drunk getting pulled over and telling the cops well I know the law is no drinking and driving but I am a excellent drunk driver I have never harmed myself or others on the road and that is the spirit of the law so I promise there is no risk I will hurt anyone else so let me keep going until I prove to you by crashing my car that I am a threat to myself and others. Sorry what you are doing is still illegal whether you smash your car or not you go to jail.

That's a compelling analogy. But I would say that at this stage of the lawsuit it seems more like two unruly drunks calling the police on the bartender for cutting them off...

[peplz]

Again the promoter pays the fighters then fighters break off a percent to pay the manager. Managers do not pay the fighters and I could care less about his bogus title. We all know he is handling both duties and it's illegal. Multiple fighters slipped up and called him their promoter in interviews. When have you ever heard a fighter call their manager their promoter? And of course gb and top rank have a case because if his illegal actions is causing them damages with potential fighters, fights and venues. And TV deals that were obtained illegally that they have to compete with.

If the law were to be interpreted in black and white you might be correct. But everything that I've heard so far from any of the legal experts that have spoken on this publicly leans toward a spirit of the law interpretation that is meant to curtail the actions of the promoter. Al Haymon being a manager first can argue that his activities participating in the promotional responsibilities of his fighters shows have all been done in the interest of his fighters. It seems that there is nothing in the Ali act that would prohibit a manager from financing his clients career in other manners so I don't see why this should be any different. There is opportunity for some type of legal precedent to be set with the outcome of this case it seems. Because a judge may see it differently. And all judges may not see it the same. Either way it's hard to see what Top Rank and Golden Boy's stake is in a possible violation of the Ali Act by Al Haymon

[bigdunny1]

Either way it's hard to see what Top Rank and Golden Boy's stake is in a possible violation of the Ali Act by Al Haymon

Easy, if Haymon is violating the Ali Act to sign an army of fighters some of which who otherwise would be signing to reputable promotional companies like GB or Top Rank that is causing damage. If Haymon is violating the Ali Act to secure TV deals that compete with GB or Top Rank that is causing damage. If Haymon is violating the Ali Act to book venues to shut out GB or Top Rank that is causing damage. You can question the motives behind GB and Top Rank but it's clear to everyone who follows boxing that Haymon is circumventing the Ali Act and is acting as manager and promoter. His fighters think he is a promoter which is why many have referred to him as such. He is handling promoter duties including paying fighters purses something that is illegal for a manager to do.

There is a reason why he doesn't do appearances at his events or grant interviews and it's not because he is shy. It's to avoid having to answer questions about his shady role. There is a reason why many top media outlets and boxing writers have been denied press passes to PBC events. Many of which have been critical about his role. It's because he doesn't want these guys asking hard questions. Imagine if the NFL refused to make Roger Goddell ever speak to the media or he never appeared at any NFL games. And the NFL barred writers who were critical about Goddell from showing up to cover their games.

[radioraheem]

Easy, if Haymon is violating the Ali Act to sign an army of fighters some of which who otherwise would be signing to reputable promotional companies like GB or Top Rank that is causing damage. If Haymon is violating the Ali Act to secure TV deals that compete with GB or Top Rank that is causing damage. If Haymon is violating the Ali Act to book venues to shut out GB or Top Rank that is causing damage. You can question the motives behind GB and Top Rank but it's clear to everyone who follows boxing that Haymon is circumventing the Ali Act and is acting as manager and promoter. His fighters think he is a promoter which is why many have referred to him as such. He is handling promoter duties including paying fighters purses something that is illegal for a manager to do.

There is a reason why he doesn't do appearances at his events or grant interviews and it's not because he is shy. It's to avoid having to answer questions about his shady role. There is a reason why many top media outlets and boxing writers have been denied press passes to PBC events. Many of which have been critical about his role. It's because he doesn't want these guys asking hard questions. Imagine if the NFL refused to make Roger Goddell ever speak to the media or he never appeared at any NFL games. And the NFL barred writers who were critical about Goddell from showing up to cover their games.

Haymon never did interviews from the beginning. When he had only one fighter, he didn't do interviews. When he had three, he also declined interviews and declined pictures. He's been this way for many years. It's not for the reasons you've tried to say.

Getting denied press passes also doesn't and shouldn't stop real journalists from investigating, asking questions, and most importantly writing articles. Finally, there is something called a post-fight press conference. PBC has these things. And if you are a member of the press, you'll have access to attend and ask the fighters questions. See here below if you think the press were really denied passes.

[MC Hammer]

WRONG. He is licensed as a MANAGER in multiple states, and thus has to follow all applicable laws. He can call himself a snake charmer if he wants to, he is still legally a manager.

Assuming you're not making up the licensed manager thing (which i've never known anyone to need a license for) they're suing in California, is he a licensed manager there? Because that would matter a whole lot. Also, did he sign a managers contract with them stating that he was their MANAGER, more than likely not.

[MC Hammer]

I don't think Haymon gets to define the term, legally.

He invented the position at least as it pertains to boxing. Since no one has defined it yet, who can say what he is doing is wrong?

[MC Hammer]

Again the promoter pays the fighters then fighters break off a percent to pay the manager. Managers do not pay the fighters and I could care less about his bogus title. We all know he is handling both duties and it's illegal. Multiple fighters slipped up and called him their promoter in interviews. When have you ever heard a fighter call their manager their promoter? And of course gb and top rank have a case because if his illegal actions is causing them damages with potential fighters, fights and venues. And TV deals that were obtained illegally that they have to compete with.

His title is all that matters here. Your breakdown is based on two title Manager/Promoter. He is neither. You can say he's acting like both, but you can't prove it. Hell he's more of an HBO than a promoter. He pays promotional outfits to fight on his broadcast dates, He helps with the costs like HBO does, he signs fighters to exclusive contracts like HBO, and helps to big up their name like HBO does. Whats the difference? He doesn't own the network? So what, he owns the broadcast. If HBO isn't in violation of this act then how is Haymon?

As far as the promoters go, they would have to proved that these fighters would've definitely signed with them, which they can't, and that the deals were gotten illegally, which they weren't, as well as the deals would have rightfully went to them, which again they wouldn't.

[Mitchell Kane]

Assuming you're not making up the licensed manager thing (which i've never known anyone to need a license for) they're suing in California, is he a licensed manager there? Because that would matter a whole lot. Also, did he sign a managers contract with them stating that he was their MANAGER, more than likely not.

Greg Bishop, New York Times:

Haymon is licensed in Nevada as a manager, yet he also performs many of same functions as promoters, his associates said, putting him in a legal gray area and perhaps in violation of the Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act, passed in 2000.

Kevin Iole, Yahoo:

Haymon is a licensed manager in Nevada and has been since 2002, but many in the sport allege he is a promoter.

Thomas Hauser, BoxingScene:

Haymon purports to be a manager. But he seems to function as the promoter for many of the shows on which his fighters appear. Often, he negotiates the license fee with the television network, selects many of the fighters who appear on the card, determines the purse for one or more of the fighters, and tells the promoter of record how much the promoter will be paid.

Most of Haymon's contracts with fighters state that they are governed by California law. But it appears that few if any of the contracts were signed before a representative of the California State Athletic Commission or filed with the commission as required by California law.

Haymon is also licensed as a manager in Nevada. But few if any of his contracts have been filed with the Nevada State Athletic Commission.

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