Pacquiao's Greatest Fights: Path of an All-Time Great Fighter

[M Bison]

yup.

who the hell is this poochiao who came out of nowhere in 2008?

Omg gotta be peds pedcquiao

[IMDAZED]

that's not what we're talking about though.

we're talking muscle/water weight.

it's same. the fighter might not feel the same.

but his muscle mass is same. you don't lose muscle cutting water weight.

Actually that was a minor point in what I was conveying. Only you got aroused in seeing that and were really desperate to make a point so I let you ride. Clearly there is a difference between cutting weight and not having to. And clearly it alters performance. You've said yes to both. So this debate really doesn't need to go on.

[Left Hook Tua]

Actually that was a minor point in what I was conveying. Only you got aroused in seeing that and were really desperate to make a point so I let you ride. Clearly there is a difference between cutting weight and not having to. And clearly it alters performance. You've said yes to both. So this debate really doesn't need to go on.

but difference between muscle weight and water weight doe?

[Left Hook Tua]

Bruh his unofficial weight for the fight at lightweight with David Diaz was 147. He was 148.5lbs against ODLH, and probably wasn't heavier than that for Cotto or Hatton. The changes in weight classes at that time seemed drastic but his actual weight was not changing much.

That doesn't mean ****. Water weight and muscle are two different things. Gatti used to weigh 160 on fight night when he fought at 140. Corrales weighed 148 when he fought at 130. Both were terrible in the higher weight. Your weight argument is shallow.

read it again.

[IMDAZED]

but difference between muscle weight and water weight doe?

But it's over doe. We both agree that there cutting overnight and not having to are two different things and clearly affects the fighter.

[BrometheusBob.]

Actually that was a minor point in what I was conveying. Only you got aroused in seeing that and were really desperate to make a point so I let you ride. Clearly there is a difference between cutting weight and not having to. And clearly it alters performance. You've said yes to both. So this debate really doesn't need to go on.

O...k, I'm trying to understand what point you've been trying to make here and I don't see it.

I responded to a post that made it seem as though Pac's ride up through weight classes was su****ious by pointing out that he actually made only gradual increases in his in ring weight (145lbs at 130, 147lbs at 135, 148.5 at 145 in successive fights). You responded by throwing out the terms muscle mass and water weight without making any actual argument. The only thing I can put together is that you think he was putting on more muscle than the change in weight shows? In that case you'd have to think Manny's in ring water weight went down? Or perhaps it surprises you that his performance stayed strong when he no longer needed to squeeze himself dry to make weight? Lol those are the only things I can reasonably infer from what you've stated so far, both of which don't seem like strong points to me, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[IMDAZED]

O...k, I'm trying to understand what point you've been trying to make here and I don't see it.

I responded to a post that made it seem as though Pac's ride up through weight classes was su****ious by pointing out that he actually made only gradual increases in his in ring weight (145lbs at 130, 147lbs at 135, 148.5 at 145 in successive fights). You responded by throwing out the terms muscle mass and water weight without making any actual argument. The only thing I can put together is that you think he was putting on more muscle than the change in weight shows? In that case you'd have to think Manny's in ring water weight went down? Or perhaps it surprises you that his performance stayed strong when he no longer needed to squeeze himself dry to make weight? Lol those are the only things I can reasonably infer from what you've stated so far, both of which don't seem like strong points to me, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Thank you for the context of the prior post. Was waiting for you to respond.

Yea bringing up fight night weight at 130 is irrelevant. He didn't have to cut weight in the higher divisions so why are we pretending he was the same guy? That has to have an affect on you. What was alarming is that he made this leap in a matter of months and was still a high volume hitter whose punches had the same effect on opponents. And his stamina was just as strong. Su****ious of course when you look at other fighters who did the same.

[Tom Cruise]

Thank you for the context of the prior post. Was waiting for you to respond.

Yea bringing up fight night weight at 130 is irrelevant. He didn't have to cut weight in the higher divisions so why are we pretending he was the same guy? That has to have an affect on you. What was alarming is that he made this leap in a matter of months and was still a high volume hitter whose punches had the same effect on opponents. And his stamina was just as strong. Su****ious of course when you look at other fighters who did the same.

Like, say, Henry Armstrong who went from Featherweight straight to Welterweight without skipping a beat. Was he su****ious? Steroids werent around back then but I bet he could've got some of that A-Side meth right?

This idea that Pacquiao didnt suffer the normal problems from his move up in weight is crazy btw. His power was less potent (he took 9 rounds to KO David 'heavybag' Diaz who he hit with a gazillion punches, Margarito made the final bell despite being beaten up from start to finish, Clottey never looked in any trouble, Cotto was stopped on accumulation etc etc). He could also be bullied backwards and hurt (early on vs Cotto and at times vs Margarito) which you would almost never see when he was fighting 130 and below. He also got KTFO in case anyone forgot.

He is just a brilliant fighter who was able to adapt to fighting bigger men by exploiting his ridiculous hand/ foot speed and stamina (along with all the other things that made him a great fighter, those three qualities just stood out the most in the higher weights). When he came up against a guy who was used to his hand and foot speed (Marquez III) he looked like the same fighter he was at 130.

Trying is to discredit him by saying his achievements are su****ious is probably the best compliment you could pay to him.

[IMDAZED]

Like, say, Henry Armstrong who went from Featherweight straight to Welterweight without skipping a beat. Was he su****ious? Steroids werent around back then but I bet he could've got some of that A-Side meth right?

This idea that Pacquiao didnt suffer the normal problems from his move up in weight is crazy btw. His power was less potent (he took 9 rounds to KO David 'heavybag' Diaz who he hit with a gazillion punches, Margarito made the final bell despite being beaten up from start to finish, Clottey never looked in any trouble, Cotto was stopped on accumulation etc etc). He could also be bullied backwards and hurt (early on vs Cotto and at times vs Margarito) which you would almost never see when he was fighting 130 and below. He also got KTFO in case anyone forgot.

He is just a brilliant fighter who was able to adapt to fighting bigger men by exploiting his ridiculous hand/ foot speed and stamina (along with all the other things that made him a great fighter, those three qualities just stood out the most in the higher weights). When he came up against a guy who was used to his hand and foot speed (Marquez III) he looked like the same fighter he was at 130.

Trying is to discredit him by saying his achievements are su****ious is probably the best compliment you could pay to him.

It is su****ious, like it or not. Doesn't take away from his accomplishments. He tested clean and that's that. So when evaluating his career, I look at it as if he was a clean fighter and won't knock him down a few pegs. But it absolutely was su****ious, particularly how he bludgeoned Cotto. But that's my opinion.

[SCEN3RY]

Chokchai 3K Battery

Pacquiao's 1st quality win and also his 1st minor/regional title.

Chockvivat was 34-2 at the time, a TOP 10 ranked fighter and the OPBF (Oriental Pacific) Flyweight champion for over 4 years and former Thai National champion.

Pacquiao was an 18 yr. old teen fighting a veteran, highly ranked fighter. Pacquiao ko'd him with one punch.

People recognize Pac for going up in weight, but unfortunately most fans, perhaps out of ignorance or lack of training, simplify just how he remained successful - Pac doesn't get enough credit for how he's adapted his style, and not all of which was so subtle. Like vs Chockvivat, he worked his offense heavily behind the right jab and right hook, otherwise over and around the guard of the shorter man, but as he's gone up in weight and lost a height advantage, he became susceptible to many of those same openings, yet he found ways to adapt, create, and utilize advantages.