How would Klitschko's career have looked without the use of illegal tactics?

[LacedUp]

Wladimir Klitschko used to be a great 1-2 puncher in his day. A truly great one. Hammering ramrod jab followed up by a missile right hand. No one can take that away from him.

However, the style he used then got him into a bit of trouble, notably 3 KO losses and 12 KDs by less than stellar opposition, to say the least. No longer the ramrod jab, instead we are left with a pawing pole stick that measures his opponents distance. Universally recognized as a very unattractive style.

Around 2005, after he started with Manny Steward, he started showing consistent illegalities such as holding, clinching, leaning, often more than 15 times per round and more than 100 times in some 12 round fights - even though the opposition were much smaller than himself i.e. Povetkin, Mormeck, Haye, Chambers and others who were held illegally.

My question is, how would his career have fared if he didn't use these illegal tactics? Likely he would have been stopped more times in his career than the 3 legitimate stoppages he already has, but to who and how?


What do you think? Still undisputed champ, occassional champ or merely contender? Was it a case of him just finding his best self, or did these illegal tactics have a positive effect on his career?

[Elroy1]

Let's be honest...

Wladimir Klitschko grapples quite a bit as other boxers have done in the past.

WK's clinching is a legal clinch after which there is a split, the fighters reset and resume boxing.

Even in the most clinchy fight against Samuel Peter,

Muhammad Ali (of all guys) clinched 2-3 times MORE than Wladimir did! (FOTC)

And sorry to say, this was NOT legal!

Head down pushing, grabbing behind the neck etc etc.

There was never a point in any of his fights in which you could have said "he should be DQ'd" realistically, unlike Ali. Unlike Ruiz.

Vitali Klitschko doesn't really need to be included in this thread.

Vitali simply took every single opponent he ever faced and beat the absolute living **** out them all! Even the opponents that he LOST against!

Except you do have a leg to stand on with this thread.

Because Wladimir, in his fight with Alexander Povetkin, certainly clinched more than in any other fight, even more than Ali vs Frazier (FOTC being the 2nd most clinchy fight of all time).

But again, I think WK should have been warned, and had he been warned, I doubt he'd have continued to clinch as much. And half the blame should be put on Povetkin for bull rushing. And the clinches were without foul tactics, and in between the hugging, Wladimir dominantly disposed of Povetkin.

So despite this embarrassing fight, the modern day Frazier vs Ali but even MORE disgraceful than the original, K2 still dominate, obviously!

[LacedUp]

Let's be honest...

Wladimir Klitschko grapples quite a bit as other boxers have done in the past.

WK's clinching is a legal clinch after which there is a split, the fighters reset and resume boxing.

Even in the most clinchy fight against Samuel Peter,

Muhammad Ali (of all guys) clinched 2-3 times MORE than Wladimir did! (FOTC)

And sorry to say, this was NOT legal!

Head down pushing, grabbing behind the neck etc etc.

There was never a point in any of his fights in which you could have said "he should be DQ'd" realistically, unlike Ali. Unlike Ruiz.

Vitali Klitschko doesn't really need to be included in this thread.

Vitali simply took every single opponent he ever faced and beat the absolute living **** out them all! Even the opponents that he LOST against!

Except you do have a leg to stand on with this thread.

Because Wladimir, in his fight with Alexander Povetkin, certainly clinched more than in any other fight, even more than Ali vs Frazier (FOTC being the 2nd most clinchy fight of all time).

But again, I think WK should have been warned, and had he been warned, I doubt he'd have continued to clinch as much. And half the blame should be put on Povetkin for bull rushing. And the clinches were without foul tactics, and in between the hugging, Wladimir dominantly disposed of Povetkin.

So despite this embarrassing fight, the modern day Frazier vs Ali but even MORE disgraceful than the original, K2 still dominate, obviously!

This is about Wladimir Klitschko, Not Muhammad Ali, please stay on topic.

Btw, Klitschko clinching, leaning on Povetkin 150 times over 12 rounds more than deserved a disqualification. If you have proof Ali or anyone else ever came close to or exceeded that amount, please provide them.

[Wolfie*]

Not with that chin...

[Elroy1]

So when he was all offensive fighter, you penalise him for his 2 legit losses (of which only the 1 against Corrie would have benefitted from clinching) and the other few occasions where he was knocked down, but presumably enjoyed the ocean of 1st, 2nd and 3rd round KO's that underscored his pre-Steward career.

And NOW that he has basically perfected the art of winning nearly every single round he ever fights while barely getting hit and more measurably destroying his opponents, you want to bash him for NOT exposing himself more to punishment for your own viewing pleasure?

I say, if you want to watch a human punching bag, watch Muhammad Ali, watch Frazier!

If you want to watch an almost perfect and impenetrable display of boxing acumen, then watch Wladimir.

[Wolfie*]

So when he was all offensive fighter, you penalise him for his 2 legit losses (of which only the 1 against Corrie would have benefitted from clinching) and the other few occasions where he was knocked down, but presumably enjoyed the ocean of 1st, 2nd and 3rd round KO's that underscored his pre-Steward career.

And NOW that he has basically perfected the art of winning nearly every single round he ever fights while barely getting hit and more measurably destroying his opponents, you want to bash him for NOT exposing himself more to punishment for your own viewing pleasure?

I say, if you want to watch a human punching bag, watch Muhammad Ali, watch Frazier!

If you want to watch an almost perfect and impenetrable display of boxing acumen, then watch Wladimir.

And that got him pushed off America television. How does that feel?

[Elroy1]

This is about Wladimir Klitschko, Not Muhammad Ali, please stay on topic.

Btw, Klitschko clinching, leaning on Povetkin 150 times over 12 rounds more than deserved a disqualification. If you have proof Ali or anyone else ever came close to or exceeded that amount, please provide them.

Check out the HW blog for yourself, I'm not reproducing it.

Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier: 2 overrated featherfists in an overrated fight.

You Tube the FOTC, watch closely as you read the round by round descriptions and add them up.

You can't get any better evidence than empirical/ irrefutable kind

As for Klitschko, sure we'll stay on topic.

Klitschko DIDN'T get DQ'd did he.

Why do you think that is?

Because he didn't break the RULES! You are allowed to clinch, it is boxing!

And Povetkin FORCED a lot of the clinches, which obviously weighed heavily on the refs decision not to warn.

You are not allowed to hold and hit. When the ref says break you have to break. You cannot hold the hands or the neck or stuff like that.

You CAN be warned for excessive clinching! That was a bit of bad reffing.

You also cannot be DQ'd without being warned.

Get the drift?

Anyway that was 2 fights ago, nothing like that had been witnessed previously, so your thread is irrelevant.

[LacedUp]

So when he was all offensive fighter, you penalise him for his 2 legit losses (of which only the 1 against Corrie would have benefitted from clinching) and the other few occasions where he was knocked down, but presumably enjoyed the ocean of 1st, 2nd and 3rd round KO's that underscored his pre-Steward career.

And NOW that he has basically perfected the art of winning nearly every single round he ever fights while barely getting hit and more measurably destroying his opponents, you want to bash him for NOT exposing himself more to punishment for your own viewing pleasure?

I say, if you want to watch a human punching bag, watch Muhammad Ali, watch Frazier!

If you want to watch an almost perfect and impenetrable display of boxing acumen, then watch Wladimir.

Once again please stay on topic. This is not a Frazier/Ali thread.

I enjoy a fighter that actually comes to fight, not to hug/lean/hold whatever. And I'm not "bashing" him. I'm stating facts, as in, he does use illegal tactics extensively. Those are facts.

Yes, sorry. He's in the sport and entertainment business, I excuse myself for wanting to see a guy smashing someone up or actually put on an entertaining show - which is what pro boxing is all about.

That's why I don't care much for guys like Wlad, Hopkins, Ward etc. Because they come to stink up the joint.

[Mr.Fantastic]

Look back at a lot of the major fights in HW boxing, a lot of them do nothing but hold and clinch....bunch of snoozefests.

Wlad has 2-3 bad fights and black america goes apeshit over them. Unlike Floyd's fights, Wlad at least knocks them out most in most of them.

[LacedUp]

Check out the HW blog for yourself, I'm not reproducing it.

Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier: 2 overrated featherfists in an overrated fight.

You Tube the FOTC, watch closely as you read the round by round descriptions and add them up.

You can't get any better evidence than empirical/ irrefutable kind

As for Klitschko, sure we'll stay on topic.

Klitschko DIDN'T get DQ'd did he.

Why do you think that is?

Because he didn't break the RULES! You are allowed to clinch, it is boxing!

You are not allowed to hold and hit. When the ref says break you have to break. You cannot hold the hands or the neck or stuff like that.

You CAN be warned for excessive clinching! That was a bit of bad reffing.

You also cannot be DQ'd without being warned.

Get the drift?

Anyway that was 2 fights ago, nothing like that had been witnessed previously, so your thread is irrelevant.

Except that he clearly did.