Comments Thread For: Roach: If Pacquiao Looks Bad, I'll Tell Him To Retire

[Yuiopy]

rather than being an english professor and commenting on the structuring of the sentences pay attention to the points he is making. ok sir.

Right. Because only english professor can write proper sentences. If you want to make your point heard, then maybe write it clearly instead of being a lazy moron.
Besides I've read what it said and most if not all of it is nothing but baseless conjectures and opinions. Really show me one claim that isn't just hearsay or an opinion. All I see are arguments that someone weighing in a few lbs less takes away everything you've trained for in the last several months. Or that being "over the hill" somehow makes someone who was once an elite fighter into an amateur over night. Even though they still have years of experience and months of training.
If all it takes is a few lbs to dominate then all that proves is that Manny was either at their level or better.

[GRUSTLER]

Right. Because only english professor can write proper sentences. If you want to make your point heard, then maybe write it clearly instead of being a lazy moron.
Besides I've read what it said and most if not all of it is nothing but baseless conjectures and opinions. Really show me one claim that isn't just here say or an opinion. All I see are arguments that someone weighing in a few lbs less takes away everything you've trained for in the last several months. Or that being "over the hill" somehow makes someone who was once an elite fighter into an amateur over night. Even though they still have years of experience and months of training.
If all it takes is a few lbs to dominate then all that proves is that Manny was either at their level or better.

Here is where your logic is flawed. Roach told Shane that he couldn't fight Manny at 147 like Oscar did because he wasn't Oscar. Also Pac fought Cotto at 145 AFTER he fought Oscar at 147. Cotto was considered to be done after Margarito beat him and he had that tough fight with Clottey. Roach still had the fight at 145 and wanted Mosley prior to agree to a 142 catch weight. So according to you,if Manny was either on Cotto level or better at the time. Why would he need a catch weight to beat a fighter that was already considered to have taken a vicious beat down and wasn't the same? Why wouldn't Roach let Manny fight Mosley and Cotto at 147 since he was so dominate over Oscar at 147? Fact of the matter is that Roach wanted an edge to give to Manny so don't say a few lbs don't matter because if they didn't than Roach would have had Manny fight everyone at the full WW/JMW limit. Pac is closer to 140 than 147 but he fought JMM at 144 like Floyd because they thought that JMM would not be affective because of the Floyd fight. Why do you think they were saying Marquez is going to get KO'd and then after that Pac performed bad? They clearly underestimated an opponent that Pac has NEVER had an easy time with in the ring 2X prior.

[ihatebobarum]

Right. Because only english professor can write proper sentences. If you want to make your point heard, then maybe write it clearly instead of being a lazy moron.
Besides I've read what it said and most if not all of it is nothing but baseless conjectures and opinions. Really show me one claim that isn't just hearsay or an opinion. All I see are arguments that someone weighing in a few lbs less takes away everything you've trained for in the last several months. Or that being "over the hill" somehow makes someone who was once an elite fighter into an amateur over night. Even though they still have years of experience and months of training.
If all it takes is a few lbs to dominate then all that proves is that Manny was either at their level or better.

all fighters say its the LAST lbs that kill you, if weight is not a problem why are team pac always so adamant on the issue even with marquez they try to blow him up same what mayweather did but unfortunately for pac marquez carried hes speed up with him. SO if u are arguing with me that weight makes no difference on the boxers performance - my dad once told me dont argue with fools.

[Yuiopy]

Here is where your logic is flawed. Roach told Shane that he couldn't fight Manny at 147 like Oscar did because he wasn't Oscar. Also Pac fought Cotto at 145 AFTER he fought Oscar at 147. Cotto was considered to be done after Margarito beat him and he had that tough fight with Clottey. Roach still had the fight at 145 and wanted Mosley prior to agree to a 142 catch weight. So according to you,if Manny was either on Cotto level or better at the time. Why would he need a catch weight to beat a fighter that was already considered to have taken a vicious beat down and wasn't the same? Why wouldn't Roach let Manny fight Mosley and Cotto at 147 since he was so dominate over Oscar at 147? Fact of the matter is that Roach wanted an edge to give to Manny so don't say a few lbs don't matter because if they didn't than Roach would have had Manny fight everyone at the full WW/JMW limit. Pac is closer to 140 than 147 but he fought JMM at 144 like Floyd because they thought that JMM would not be affective because of the Floyd fight. Why do you think they were saying Marquez is going to get KO'd and then after that Pac performed bad? They clearly underestimated an opponent that Pac has NEVER had an easy time with in the ring 2X prior.

None of this proves that the catch weight actually worked in his favor though. Just because they asked for it doesn't mean that it was effective. Do you see the difference? All it could have given him was a mental edge.
People have this bias that someone heavier than you always have a definite advantage, but a lot of the time this isn't true when the lighter person is much faster than the bigger one.
I'm not even defending Manny for taking the advantages here. I think he's a ***** for doing it. But people are overlooking the issue here. Manny won those fights not because of weight issue, but because they are all slow plotting fighters that he out sped. When faced with someone with patience and skill in JMM it shows that he wasn't at much of an advantage regardless of weight.

[Yuiopy]

all fighters say its the LAST lbs that kill you, if weight is not a problem why are team pac always so adamant on the issue even with marquez they try to blow him up same what mayweather did but unfortunately for pac marquez carried hes speed up with him. SO if u are arguing with me that weight makes no difference on the boxers performance - my dad once told me dont argue with fools.

What people say and what people do are far different. Michael Jordan dropped 38 points while he had a fever. You really think shedding a few lbs will bring someone from 100 to 0?
I'm not defending Manny for taking the advantages here. My argument though is that I don't think it would have made a difference. My opinion is that Manny won with speed and tenacity. He would have won against those "weight drained" fighters regardless of a few lbs.

[GodInFleshSuit]

Right. Because only english professor can write proper sentences. If you want to make your point heard, then maybe write it clearly instead of being a lazy moron.
Besides I've read what it said and most if not all of it is nothing but baseless conjectures and opinions. Really show me one claim that isn't just hearsay or an opinion. All I see are arguments that someone weighing in a few lbs less takes away everything you've trained for in the last several months. Or that being "over the hill" somehow makes someone who was once an elite fighter into an amateur over night. Even though they still have years of experience and months of training.
If all it takes is a few lbs to dominate then all that proves is that Manny was either at their level or better.

I don't mean to butt-in but to say being weight drained or past your prime isn't a significant disadvantage to a fighter is just ridiculous. Losing an extra pound or two when you have already depleted the majority of your body fat and dehydrated your body to the furthest possible extent is no easy task. After so long of depriving the body of water, nutrients, and continuing to exhaust the body in rigerous training, it will begin to go into a state of shock. The muscles cramp easier, and endurance and strength decreases as a result. There is no way this grueling process right before a fight doesn't seriously hurt a fighters ability in the ring.

As far as saying a fighter who is past his prime is still comparable or just as good as as in their prime because of his experience is just plain silly. Most fighters were great in their prime because of their endurance, quick reflexes, and the power. Roy Jones Jr is the perfect example. He thrived in the game on all of these attributes for years and dominated. Once he started to hit his late 30's he lost a step and it caught up to him fast. He was easier to hit, gassed in the later rounds, and didn't have that KO power he once had that ended fights early. So how can you say a fighter that is past his prime is still highly competitve?

[GRUSTLER]

None of this proves that the catch weight actually worked in his favor though. Just because they asked for it doesn't mean that it was effective. Do you see the difference? All it could have given him was a mental edge.
People have this bias that someone heavier than you always have a definite advantage, but a lot of the time this isn't true when the lighter person is much faster than the bigger one.
I'm not even defending Manny for taking the advantages here. I think he's a ***** for doing it. But people are overlooking the issue here. Manny won those fights not because of weight issue, but because they are all slow plotting fighters that he out sped. When faced with someone with patience and skill in JMM it shows that he wasn't at much of an advantage regardless of weight.

So it did worked in Pac's favor if he was given a mental edge right? This is according to you.

Roach said that though a “Mosley fight is probably the most exciting because they both like to fight,” it's all about making the fight on even terms.

"I have to protect my fighter,” said Roach, who administered the terms for Pacquiao and Oscar De La Hoya last year. “I spoke to Shane and told him that we would fight him at 142. He said he can’t make that weight.”

Mosley asked why not 147, as Manny/Oscar was set at 147? Roach said that Mosley is not De La Hoya in terms of setting a weight handicap.

[Yuiopy]

So it did worked in Pac's favor if he was given a mental edge right? This is according to you.

So what? Trash talking gives a mental edge too. Should that be banned?

[Yuiopy]

I don't mean to butt-in but to say being weight drained or past your prime isn't a significant disadvantage to a fighter is just ridiculous. Losing an extra pound or two when you have already depleted the majority of your body fat and dehydrated your body to the furthest possible extent is no easy task. After so long of depriving the body of water, nutrients, and continuing to exhaust the body in rigerous training, it will begin to go into a state of shock. The muscles cramp easier, and endurance and strength decreases as a result. There is no way this grueling process right before a fight doesn't seriously hurt a fighters ability in the ring.

As far as saying a fighter who is past his prime is still comparable or just as good as as in their prime because of his experience is just plain silly. Most fighters were great in their prime because of their endurance, quick reflexes, and the power. Roy Jones Jr is the perfect example. He thrived in the game on all of these attributes for years and dominated. Once he started to hit his late 30's he lost a step and it caught up to him fast. He was easier to hit, gassed in the later rounds, and didn't have that KO power he once had that ended fights early. So how can you say a fighter that is past his prime is still highly competitve?

No you're missing the point. I'm not saying that "weight drained" and "past prime" fighters are still at the top of their game. What I'm saying is that they are not "that far back". People act like these guys went from 100% to 50%. When what it really is more like 100% to 90% at worst. You act like these fighters were walking zombies from round one.
All I'm saying is that Manny's wins are still great accomplishments. Whether he deserves all those accolades is questionable. But it's undeniable that at the time they fought he was the better fighter than those he dominated regardless of weight.

[GRUSTLER]

So what? Trash talking gives a mental edge too. Should that be banned?

You have no leg to stand on. Your logic and out look was flawed and pointed out as such. Stop making excuses for the obvious.