If RJJ retired AFTER fighting Ruiz, would he have gone down as a TOP 5 ATG?

[Big_L]

Remember more importantly than who is when.

duran beat moore at 32 and barkley at 37. roy made his move to heavy at 34 and beat ruiz. then back down and beat tarver. and duran was already on the downside at 32. losing to kirkland laing not too long before that. roy was still on top at 34. he also beat trinidad at 39. not saying that was a great win but it's still something. iran barkley really wasn't that good. we could nitpick forever i just really don't see much of a difference.

do you think pernell whitaker has a better resume than roy? nobody ever complains about his but it's not any better than roy's.

[Mr. Invincible]

Lol at the people you mentioned for Roy. Roy's resume is so underrated it's sad.

Hopkins, Toney, Tarver, McCallum, Gonzalez, Ruiz, Woods, Hill, Griffin, Harding, Trinidad, Del Valle, [Reggie] Johnson, Grant.

And if Mosley and Margarito are mentioned for Pacquiao, then what the hell, i'll name Tito Trinidad for Roy Jones.

Roy Jones Jr's record against undefeated fighters is an impressive 8-1, with his lone loss coming in 2008 against Calzaghe, obviously way past it. If you want to count the BS DQ loss to Griffin then Jones is 8-2. But has basically lost to only 1 of 9 undefeated fighters he faced. That's very, very, very impressive. Sure you got Brannon[a guy hyped up by Merchant as a legit challenger], Hanshaw, Kelly and Thomas in there. But you also have Toney, Gonzalez, Harding, and Griffin. Even seemingly unbeatable fighters, couldn't beat Jones.

You also had guys coming in with all sorts of win streaks, that stopped with Roy Jones, and the win streaks continued after Roy Jones beat them. Which shows just how ****** that "Roy fought bums and cherrypicked" comment is.

When Jones beat Tarver, Tarver had lost one fight, to Harding, a guy Roy had already defeated. Tarver had not lost in 3 years before he was defeated by a weight drained Jones in a good close fight. And you didn't even mention Harding.

After Jones beat the undefeated Gonzalez, Gonzalez posted up a 9 fight winning streak, including wins over Glen Johnson and Dariusz...you know who. Again, you didn't mention Gonzalez, despite that being a great win.

McCallum, another guy you didn't mention. His record entering the fight speaks for it self. 49-3. The fight was legit. It was a veteran vs a the youngster type of fight. McCallum ended his career with 5 losses, never getting stopped. And if you want to say McCallum was past his best against Jones, look at McCallum's 3rd very close fight with Toney, A YEAR AFTER Jones had soundly shut McCallum out. Some people may have scored it for McCallum. Go check the fight out on youtube, it's a very good fight and it was McCallum's last fight. Toney has clearly said, that the 1997 fight with McCallum was the toughest fight of his career.

And just to elaborate on Jones' resume: Had Calzaghe fought him when it mattered, he would have been anothger Jones victim and he would have been considered a euro bum as well. The haters will always find a way.

[Roman Moreno]

No you ****ing idiot. I am probably the biggest Lopez fan you will find, and he can not be the GOAT because he refused to go up in weight when he had already DOMINATED a weight division for YEARS.

He didnt go up in weight when there were 2 fighters that MAYBE could have given him problems, Michael Carbajal and Chiquita Gonzales.

Please, just STFU.

Did Finito fight at 108 yes or no? Hagler didn't go up in weight, Monzon didn't go up in weight, did Finito go up to 108 yes or no?

So there was 2 fights that didn't get done. Now for such a Finito fan you should have mentioned that him and Chiquita shared the same trainer. I'm pretty sure you knew that, why not mention it? Not relevant? No?

So he didn't go up to fight Carbajal. Isn't that the equivalent of Roy ducking Jirov?

But, that is not a knock on Roy. I don't hold him ducking Jirov against him. It would have been awesome to see. But, it didn't happen. Not every fight can be made.

But, who cares if he went up or not? Because, that is not what I was responding to anyways. Are we talking about resume or H2H? Because, if it's the latter it doesn't what fights were and weren't made it matters how skilled and talented they were no?

[Roman Moreno]

duran beat moore at 32 and barkley at 37. roy made his move to heavy at 34 and beat ruiz. then back down and beat tarver. and duran was already on the downside at 32. losing to kirkland laing not too long before that. roy was still on top at 34. he also beat trinidad at 39. not saying that was a great win but it's still something. iran barkley really wasn't that good. we could nitpick forever i just really don't see much of a difference.

do you think pernell whitaker has a better resume than roy? nobody ever complains about his but it's not any better than roy's.

Age doesn't matter when discussing prime. Roy at 35 is going down hill and fast mind you. Hopkins is still going strong. Sergio Martinez is still going strong. Age is irrelevant really when discussing what a fighter has left. Just because a fight is going down hill on 32 doesn't mean that the guy that's going strong on 40 is greater. Also at the time Barkley was coming off a huge win. Biggest of his career. Duran beat Ernesto Marcel at 130 in 1970 and then beat Jorge Castro in 1997 at 168. Think about that for a second, when discussing Duran resume.

I get your point that you can nitpick everyone...Sure, I agree.

And, yes I think Whitaker resume is better than Roy. Maybe not on paper because he got flat out robbed a couple times but it is better.

I think Roy resume is better than Hopkins, I think it's arguably better than Floyd and Pac. He has an outstanding resume. it's what people think it's discrediting that I don't get. Because, you probably think I'm discrediting Roy since I think Duran and Whitaker resume are greater.

[StarshipTrooper]

Calling Reed.....calling Reed :cool9:

[Always]

Did Finito fight at 108 yes or no? Hagler didn't go up in weight, Monzon didn't go up in weight, did Finito go up to 108 yes or no?

So there was 2 fights that didn't get done. Now for such a Finito fan you should have mentioned that him and Chiquita shared the same trainer. I'm pretty sure you knew that, why not mention it? Not relevant? No?

So he didn't go up to fight Carbajal. Isn't that the equivalent of Roy ducking Jirov?

But, that is not a knock on Roy. I don't hold him ducking Jirov against him. It would have been awesome to see. But, it didn't happen. Not every fight can be made.

But, who cares if he went up or not? Because, that is not what I was responding to anyways. Are we talking about resume or H2H? Because, if it's the latter it doesn't what fights were and weren't made it matters how skilled and talented they were no?

Yea, because we are arguing, and debating making our case for Hagler and Monzon being THE GOAT..... SMH. You sound like an IDIOT.

Same trainer or not, he did not fight Gonzales or Carbajal, the 2 fighters that had the greatest shot at beating Lopez. And even if he did move up to 108, he still didnt fight them. His competition at 108 wasnt exactly a Murderer's Row.

Im not hating in Lopez, because like I said, he is one of my favorite fighters ever, and I even have a signed glove, so dont get your thong in a bunch.

[IMG]//i245.***********.com/albums/gg48/htowntexan08/DSC04979.jpg[/IMG]

[StarshipTrooper]

Dominating a weight class for years >>>>>>>>>> hopping divisions and cherry picking the weakest belt-holders to collect a worthless strap.

Poet

[sammiza567]

Dominating a weight class for years >>>>>>>>>> hopping divisions and cherry picking the weakest belt-holders to collect a worthless strap.

Poet

if it were that easy hopkins would have done it and got the fame/$ like roy did. but he didnt because prime for prime hop aint half the fighter roy is. he doesnt have the resume but in my mind he beat anyone south of heavyweight in the history of the sport.

[Roman Moreno]

Yea, because we are arguing, and debating making our case for Hagler and Monzon being THE GOAT..... SMH. You sound like an IDIOT.

Same trainer or not, he did not fight Gonzales or Carbajal, the 2 fighters that had the greatest shot at beating Lopez. And even if he did move up to 108, he still didnt fight them. His competition at 108 wasnt exactly a Murderer's Row.

Im not hating in Lopez, because like I said, he is one of my favorite fighters ever, and I even have a signed glove, so dont get your thong in a bunch.

The reason I gave those examples. Because, not moving up weight means it's a bad thing. Like you try to insinuate.

Sometimes dominance in a weight-class is more difficult and a greater accomplishment than moving up in weight.

Of course having the same trainer matters. It's silly to say or not or act like that's not even relevant enough to mention. It's pretty relevant.

Again not moving up to fight Carbajal in the equivalent to Roy not moving up to fight Jirov while taking lesser money and fight a lesser threat in Clinton Woods.

But, you're not even understanding the point. You're making my point for me and I thank you for that. What BoxingGenius point is that H2H in terms of skill, talent and ability he is the GOAT. Not whether or not he beat this guy or didn't fight that guy. He is not talking about resume, he is talking about skill, talent, ability.

A signed glove means nothing by the way.

[RubenSonny]

Roy is top 20 material for me.