Does Sergio Martinez deserve to be known as the 3rd best P4P boxer in the world?

[crold1]

I'd hardly call that a brutal KO.

As for the thread subject...

Everyone has a fight or fights where they don't look the best, its not the end of the world. And Barker is not a bad fighter either.

Martinez has been on a sick roll since Bunema. He might have lost two rounds all night Saturday against a guy he couldn't possibly have taken as serious as his last four fights. As soon as he turned it on, he finished easily. Martinez has flaws but making the Barker fight out to be anything other than a good champion slogging through a paycheck defense is silly. Time to get back to real defenses. I would hope a Sturm fight can be made...if not, Pirog wants it (even if he might not be ready, he ain't getting any younger).

There are a slew of tough challengers coming. Martinez has a short window to cash out at his age but the cash cows ain't coming.

If he fights Lee, that's a de****able joke.

[Khalid X]

big hypothetical, but still.

If Donaire beats narvaez and moves up to featherweight and beats gamboa, should he be considered #1 p4p?

Absolutely not.


him fighting Navaez is equivalent to Sergio fighting Lucas Matthysse at MW. Well not even that because at least Matthysse is a legit fighter....while the jury is still out on Narvaez.

Donaire is talented no doubt, and I would never doubt his skill level, but the kid is everything fans accuse Floyd and Manny of and then some.

He has no interest in being great and I highly doubt he will face Gamboa.

[crold1]

Absolutely not.


him fighting Navaez is equivalent to Sergio fighting Lucas Matthysse at MW. Well not even that because at least Matthysse is a legit fighter....while the jury is still out on Narvaez.

Donaire is talented no doubt, and I would never doubt his skill level, but the kid is everything fans accuse Floyd and Manny of and then some.

He has no interest in being great and I highly doubt he will face Gamboa.

The juries not out on Narvaez. He's legit with some quality wins. His career has been disappointing because it's never been pushed to be more, but he's clearly a world class guy. Agree on the size thing and Donaire is just another level altogether besides that.

[Barry Halls]

Absolutely not.


him fighting Navaez is equivalent to Sergio fighting Lucas Matthysse at MW. Well not even that because at least Matthysse is a legit fighter....while the jury is still out on Narvaez.

Donaire is talented no doubt, and I would never doubt his skill level, but the kid is everything fans accuse Floyd and Manny of and then some.

He has no interest in being great and I highly doubt he will face Gamboa.

Narvaez is just of mild importance. I don't even think Narvaez is especially good.

The important part of my hypothetical was him beating Gamboa at featherweight. That would mean hes gone from flyweight to feather winning legitimate titles, beating elite opponents.

Could you elaborate on donaire not wanting to be great? I had my doubts about the kid before, i felt his resume was somewhat overrated. But since he stepped up and fought Montiel, I've dropped those thoughts.

[joseph5620]

why do people have ward so high on their p4p lists?

His two noteworthy wins are kessler and abraham(at 168).
I just don't get it.

If he beats Froch, that would be a major improvement for his resume. But he hasn't.

Martinez noteworthy wins are Pavlik and Williams. What's the difference?

[crold1]

Martinez noteworthy wins are Pavlik and Williams. What's the difference?

Williams is a better win than AA. Kessler is a better win than Pavlik. Ward is perfectly valid anywhere soemone wants to put him in the top ten and it's valid to argue against it. It's P4P...who cares? Better to focus on whether Martinez is better than N'Djam or Pirog. Those are actually fights in his division.

[joseph5620]

Williams is a better win than AA. Kessler is a better win than Pavlik. Ward is perfectly valid anywhere soemone wants to put him in the top ten and it's valid to argue against it. It's P4P...who cares? Better to focus on whether Martinez is better than N'Djam or Pirog. Those are actually fights in his division.

Agreed. It balances out.

[Barry Halls]

i disagree. I think Pavlik in the context of p4p is a better win for Martinez than Kessler is for Ward. I don't think we should neglect the fact Pavlik was lineal champ either.

Williams and Abraham i don't feel the need to clarify.

Also agree with crold. p4p may be a fun mental exercise, but in the end kind of pointless.

[Khalid X]

Narvaez is just of mild importance. I don't even think Narvaez is especially good.

The important part of my hypothetical was him beating Gamboa at featherweight. That would mean hes gone from flyweight to feather winning legitimate titles, beating elite opponents.

Could you elaborate on donaire not wanting to be great? I had my doubts about the kid before, i felt his resume was somewhat overrated. But since he stepped up and fought Montiel, I've dropped those thoughts.

No disrespect to you as a poster, but it seems you really haven't followed donaire that long.

I say this because anyone who has, no he doesn't challenge himself consistantly and would rather sit back and claim people are ducking him instead of taking fights that could lead to him being an ATG/HOF fighter.

At 112, he was called out wongjong and naito but both were set on facing each. Maybe it was a duck by them but even at that, there were a ton of other fighters willing to face Donaire. Then he cries because a 19 year old Kameda turns the fight down because his camp said he is still developing as a fighter.

Yes he beat Darchinyan and Montiel, but notice how he never follows up. Agbecko has been calling him out for years, and guys like Perez and others have never had any issues facing him.

I mean look how loaded 118 is. Why not clean out that division or face other elite fighters there? Instead dude was trying to fight Hugo Cazareaz.

Donaire is pathetic and yes he is talented and will have a great win here and there, but him going years upon years in between without challenging himself is why I say he isn't interested in being great.

[hugh grant]

Sergio is supposed to be the best fighter in the world. Barker isnt. Barker gave Sergio a tough tough fight, so Sergio didnt perform like the best fighter in the world.
Although you cant perform great every performance. So i'll be gentle on Sergio, im not saying he isnt one of the greatest fighters in the world but that wasnt a performance of the greatest. If SSM is better than Barker on paper, then Sergio will be having to perform like Pac did to have an equivalent performance. And Sergio is in no way equivalent to Pac, even though he wants to be known to be.

Floyd should fight Sergio now, because Floyd will get credit for beating the so called second or third best fighter in the world, who isnt, if u get my drift.?