Vitali's political stance

[Bombardier]

What did everyone think of Vitali's talk about the situation in Ukraine? I understand that it means a lot to him, and I respect that he uses his quasi-fame to try and drum up support for a noble cause, but I was a little baffled by his comments that he was fighting for the honour of Ukraine. Hard to see how a boxing match relates to a struggle for democracy, unless maybe he was fighting Vladimir ***** .

Anyway, I get annoyed when Hollywood stars tell us how to vote (even when I agree with their stance) and this doesn't seem to be much different from that. I suppose his position as a national figure might mean he feels he has a responsibility to speak out, though. Not sure about this one.

[PBDS]

What did everyone think of Vitali's talk about the situation in Ukraine? I understand that it means a lot to him, and I respect that he uses his quasi-fame to try and drum up support for a noble cause, but I was a little baffled by his comments that he was fighting for the honour of Ukraine. Hard to see how a boxing match relates to a struggle for democracy, unless maybe he was fighting Vladimir ***** .

Anyway, I get annoyed when Hollywood stars tell us how to vote (even when I agree with their stance) and this doesn't seem to be much different from that. I suppose his position as a national figure might mean he feels he has a responsibility to speak out, though. Not sure about this one.

......Normaly I would agree with you about actors and athletes speaking out. However, in the grand scheme of things this situation(in the Ukraine) is larger than life and the consequences will have a profound effect on the everyday life of all of the people of the Ukraine. Move forward with democracy and freedom or go backwards to the old soviet ways with no real freedom and a life of fear. It doesn't get any bigger than that and I applaud Vit on this one and I back his stance.

[pinaldino]

What did everyone think of Vitali's talk about the situation in Ukraine? I understand that it means a lot to him, and I respect that he uses his quasi-fame to try and drum up support for a noble cause, but I was a little baffled by his comments that he was fighting for the honour of Ukraine. Hard to see how a boxing match relates to a struggle for democracy, unless maybe he was fighting Vladimir ***** .

Anyway, I get annoyed when Hollywood stars tell us how to vote (even when I agree with their stance) and this doesn't seem to be much different from that. I suppose his position as a national figure might mean he feels he has a responsibility to speak out, though. Not sure about this one.

Yes "boxing for the honour of Ukraine" might be an awkward way to say he wants people to be proud of his country or something like that...he should not mix up his personal feelings about his country and his job
as for the rest I totally agree with you!

[Nautilus]

It is hard for me to judge the political side of Vitaliy's views.

I think the situation in Ukraine is very complicated.

It is not "Democracy" vs "Commies," since both sides are ********ic (by local standards).

It is more of a cultural standoff:

Western Ukraine is very nationalistic and sees itself together with EE/NATO. Western U. supports Yushenko. (Plus all these freaking ****s support Yushenko).

Eastern Ukraine is oriented towards East and Russia. Eastern U. supports Yanukovich.

Russia will never be accepted as a part of EE/NATO despite the fact that Russia itself asked to be a part of it. Russia is de-facto strongly isolated from and by Europe. Europe imposed trade barriers on Russia and now tries to impose its political will. Russia and Europe will never be together, not because of Russia, but because of Europe.

Thus, this election is seen as a major CULTURAL SEPARATION of Ukraine from Russia. The consequence might be a dramatic change for both Ukraine and Russia.

The two candidates received an equal share of votes 50/50 +/- 1% (and now they debate as to who fixed that 1%).

The astonishing fact is the STRIKING POLARIZATION of the entire country:

in some Western areas, 97% voted for Yushenko;

in some Eastern areas, 97% voted for Yanukovich.


I think that BOTH of these candidates should withdraw from the further presedential elections, because they have POLARIZED the country so much!


Personally, I understand the views of both sides!

I do see myself with Eastern Ukrainians, but I hold nothing against Western Ukrainians.

Vitaliy is one of my favoriate boxers and I respect his political views very much (even though I don't necessarily agree with them).

[Cletus Funk]

Interesting post Nautilus, karma coming your way.

[Tyson'scolon]

The situation in the Ukraine sounds oddly familiar.......

[Bombardier]

It is hard for me to judge the political side of Vitaliy's views.

I think the situation in Ukraine is very complicated.

It is not "Democracy" vs "Commies," since both sides are ********ic (by local standards).

It is more of a cultural standoff:

Western Ukraine is very nationalistic and sees itself together with EE/NATO. Western U. supports Yushenko. (Plus all these freaking ****s support Yushenko).

Eastern Ukraine is oriented towards East and Russia. Eastern U. supports Yanukovich.

Russia will never be accepted as a part of EE/NATO despite the fact that Russia itself asked to be a part of it. Russia is de-facto strongly isolated from and by Europe. Europe imposed trade barriers on Russia and now tries to impose its political will. Russia and Europe will never be together, not because of Russia, but because of Europe.

Thus, this election is seen as a major CULTURAL SEPARATION of Ukraine from Russia. The consequence might be a dramatic change for both Ukraine and Russia.

The two candidates received an equal share of votes 50/50 +/- 1% (and now they debate as to who fixed that 1%).

The astonishing fact is the STRIKING POLARIZATION of the entire country:

in some Western areas, 97% voted for Yushenko;

in some Eastern areas, 97% voted for Yanukovich.


I think that BOTH of these candidates should withdraw from the further presedential elections, because they have POLARIZED the country so much!


Personally, I understand the views of both sides!

I do see myself with Eastern Ukrainians, but I hold nothing against Western Ukrainians.

Vitaliy is one of my favoriate boxers and I repect his political views (even though I don't necessarily agree with them).

Nautilus, I respect your opinion, too, but I have to take issue with some of the facts you've presented. You make it sound like this was a fair and proper election when in reality it was anything but. The Yanukovich side used every trick in the book to try and win the vote. Voter turnout in the pro-Yanukovich east was an impossibly high 96%. This is the sort of turnout percentage quoted by dictators of all stripes when they want to demonstrate their "popularity". In this case, Yanukovich supporters were driving absentee ballots all over the country and counting them multiple times, among other shenanigans.

The current pro-Yanukovich president also manipulated the state-run media heavily in Yanukovich's favour, and ***** regularly visited the country to apply his heavy hand to the proceedings. It was just announced as well that Yushenko was in fact poisoned, more than likely by supporters of his opponent.

Still, I'm really glad you posted your opinions here because I enjoy reading someone else's take on the situation, especially because you have a completely different perspective on the issue.

[Dude]

Nautilus, I don't know where you got your informations from but that must've been a very biased source. It's a fact that the vote was manipulated. Or do you disagree with the highest court of the Ukraine?

It is a fact that Yushenko was poisoned. And it's very likely that he was poisoned by the old regime. Do you call that a ********ic act?

So it really is about democracy and freedom. Guys that manipulate elections and poison their enemies shouldn't be allowed to rule a country regardless of what they stand for.

And it's not only about being pro-Europe or pro-Russia it's about modernisation and a new chance for a new generation. Your argument of "****s" being a strong part of Yushenkos movement is absolutly incorrect. Or do you think that 90 percent of Kiew are extremly nationalistic?

To answer the question this thread was originally about: Vitali and Wladimir mean a lot more to the people over there than Michel Jordan or Tiger Woods to the Americans. Their word does actually mean something in political questions. Both Vitali and Wladimir grew up in a different time and era. They've been confronted with the old regime. Now they're rich and know all over the world. But they still care about where they came from and what made them. I respect both of them a lot for their engagement in this case. Not as boxers or celebs but as humans.

[Nautilus]

Nautilus, I respect your opinion, too, but I have to take issue with some of the facts you've presented. You make it sound like this was a fair and proper election when in reality it was anything but. The Yanukovich side used every trick in the book to try and win the vote. Voter turnout in the pro-Yanukovich east was an impossibly high 96%. This is the sort of turnout percentage quoted by dictators of all stripes when they want to demonstrate their "popularity". In this case, Yanukovich supporters were driving absentee ballots all over the country and counting them multiple times, among other shenanigans.

The current pro-Yanukovich president also manipulated the state-run media heavily in Yanukovich's favour, and ***** regularly visited the country to apply his heavy hand to the proceedings. It was just announced as well that Yushenko was in fact poisoned, more than likely by supporters of his opponent.

Still, I'm really glad you posted your opinions here because I enjoy reading someone else's take on the situation, especially because you have a completely different perspective on the issue.

1. You said that "Voter turnout in the pro-Yanukovich east was an impossibly high 96%."

The voter turnout in L'VIV, pro-Yushenko area was an imposible high at 95-96% or so. Somehow Western media ignores that and pays attention only to the "other" 96%

2. There was a lot of unfair actions from both sides. You mentioned one view on the role of absentee ballots. Here is another: The Yushenko side initiated a ban issued in the second tour on the so called "absentee voting". The people most affected by this are coal-miners from Eastern Ukraine (who work extended shifts and can not vote without absentee ballots if they happen to be on a shift). This ban is a direct violation of the consitution, and biased the results in favor of Yushenko.

3. There are no state-run media in Ukraine, except for one minor TV channel. It is all private but is run by business tycoons -- the oligarchs -- who divided the media support nearly equally (50-50 or maybe 40-60) between the two candidates.


4. Let's also remember that Yushenko is a former prime-minister, a direct predecessor of the current prime-minister. He is a part of the main-stream political system and has a lot of the support from within the system, including the parlament and the Supreme Court.

[Nautilus]

Nautilus, I don't know where you got your informations from but that must've been a very biased source. It's a fact that the vote was manipulated. Or do you disagree with the highest court of the Ukraine?

It is a fact that Yushenko was poisoned. And it's very likely that he was poisoned by the old regime. Do you call that a ********ic act?

So it really is about democracy and freedom. Guys that manipulate elections and poison their enemies shouldn't be allowed to rule a country regardless of what they stand for.

And it's not only about being pro-Europe or pro-Russia it's about modernisation and a new chance for a new generation. Your argument of "****s" being a strong part of Yushenkos movement is absolutly incorrect. Or do you think that 90 percent of Kiew are extremly nationalistic?

To answer the question this thread was originally about: Vitali and Wladimir mean a lot more to the people over there than Michel Jordan or Tiger Woods to the Americans. Their word does actually mean something in political questions. Both Vitali and Wladimir grew up in a different time and era. They've been confronted with the old regime. Now they're rich and know all over the world. But they still care about where they came from and what made them. I respect both of them a lot for their engagement in this case. Not as boxers or celebs but as humans.

You distort what I have said.

It is not about democracy and freedom -- this is my opinion. period. You can not force me to change my opinion.

By "****s" I meant specific ultra-right parties in L'viv (who also drove out ***ish population from there) and not the 65%-pro-Yushenko Kiev. (not 90% as you say)

Indeed, Yushenko probably was poisoned. (I do not think Yanukovich did it though). I feel very sorry about this.

"Biased"???!!

I have many relatives and friends in Eastern Ukraine. I have lived in Western Ukraine for 10 years too. My grand-grandfather died in 1942, defending Ukraine from the **** invasion.

I care about Ukraine as much as Wlad and Vit do! I just have different views, but I do very much respect their views.