GREATNESS: By the numbers...

[rambov]

Ray was the man indeed.

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

Ray Leonard was a bulldog-your right people often times think of Leonard as a shoe shiner or cutie pie but the guy was a true bulldog in the ring.

Scap, you''re right...exactly...people need to forget the smile and the 7 Up commercials...WATCH him bite down on his mouthpiece against Duran and Hearns and Hagler when he needed to...watch him go after Davey Green...watch him go after Andy Price and LaLonde...a killer...

[Alex_Hayden]

It's like Athletes in most sports were always more solid in the past. Was it cause they were mentally stronger or what?

[Mayabang]

wtf? Not a *****/******* thread?? Mods please BAN this joke of a TS.

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

It's like Athletes in most sports were always more solid in the past. Was it cause they were mentally stronger or what?

I think as the years have gone by, slowly but surely, athletes have gotten more and more into their images more than their actual team related accomplishments....money...outside activities...they become singers, rappers, businessmen, movie stars, etc...more emphasis is put on individuals than teams, on flashy showings more than solid ones...

[Bennett]

lalonde was a bum who lost his title at a catch-weight. ray dodged hagler and pryor for years and definitely should have lost to hagler. if you dont think that fight was fixed, i'll refer you to the hearns rematch which he should have lost again but got teh draw? fixs aside ray should have been 34-5(1)-25. in an era where fighters had over 60 fights as a base line, was ray really that great? he legitimately beat benetiz, hearns 1x out of 2, duran 2x out of 3 (89' duran was crap so thats really 1x legit, duran turned pro in 68' for cryin out loud).

hows about those numbers?

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

lalonde was a bum who lost his title at a catch-weight. ray dodged hagler and pryor for years and definitely should have lost to hagler. if you dont think that fight was fixed, i'll refer you to the hearns rematch which he should have lost again but got teh draw? fixs aside ray should have been 34-5(1)-25. in an era where fighters had over 60 fights as a base line, was ray really that great? he legitimately beat benetiz, hearns 1x out of 2, duran 2x out of 3 (89' duran was crap so thats really 1x legit, duran turned pro in 68' for cryin out loud).

hows about those numbers?

LaLonde, NOT a bum by any stretch...
Dodged Pryor?? Ray retired in early 82 BEFORE Pryor made it big....Dodged Hagler? Again...Ray retired in early 82' as a WELTERWEIGHT...and when they did fight Ray won 9 of 12 rounds...Duran in 1989 when he fought Ray had just beaten IRAN BARLEY in a GREAT fight for the world title so the "crap" label doesnt exactly apply, my man...

[BostonGuy]

Hey John, sorry to get off topic but I thought I'd ask while you're on right now. Awhile back you said that you might be training a young heavyweight fighter, are you training him?

[Bennett]

LaLonde, NOT a bum by any stretch...
Dodged Pryor?? Ray retired in early 82 BEFORE Pryor made it big....Dodged Hagler? Again...Ray retired in early 82' as a WELTERWEIGHT...and when they did fight Ray won 9 of 12 rounds...Duran in 1989 when he fought Ray had just beaten IRAN BARLEY in a GREAT fight for the world title so the "crap" label doesnt exactly apply, my man...

he dodged pryor, people knew pryor before arguello.

lalonde was a bum, come on john. that fight was a freakin joke. who did lalonde beat...hamsho? then he went and lost to czyz? then your bringing up kalule like he was a *********, the man lost to a 10-0 nobody one year later. lalonde was fighting bums with 0-2 and 7-8 records 2 years before leonard.

retired in 82' but fought howard in 84'?

maybe these kids dont know barkley that well, but I do. i grew up in the era and barkley was a bum. he had 4 losses and knock ktfo'd before he met duran, an old duran. big deal he beat scypion with 7 losses or a old hearns far out of his weight. must be that van horn fight cuz I'm not feelin it.

dude, duran lost to lawlor in the fight after ray. thats pat lawlor.

now way in hell did ray win 9 out of 12 rounds against hagler. that was a 115-113 either way you flip it. everybody knows you chilled with ray back in the day and stuff, but leggo of your ego----he was a really talented fighter, but not as big of an all time great if you take a look at what he did and didn't do.

[JDezi4]

Cause he was a beast. That should come to no surprise.