Boxingscenes P4P ATG list. Grade a fighter day 36. What grade do you give Lennox Lewis?

[HitmanTommy]

So, more on the nose, Lennox did not live in a unterbelt era. He inspired the underbelt era. He even wrote into sanctioning bodies urging them to make more belts. Floyd's career is very much unterbelt era. Is it Floyd's fault or Lennox's fault there's no undisputed champions anymore? Is it Floyd's fault or Lennox's fault boxing as an industry is much more receptive to boxers maximizing minimal effort?

Exactly, Floyd just did what Lennox laid out for him. Just like how kids are just trying to be the next Floyd now.

That's an interesting way of looking at it.

Hmm..........

[REDEEMER]

Well what was he supposed to do? He was 38 years old by that point. Are people really faulting him over rematching Vitali? What's wrong with him trying to get a huge payday against the severely undersized Roy Jones that posed Lewis no threat whatsoever or the beyond washed up Tyson?

You're being unreasonable.

I don’t recall any other fighter running away from a promised mandatory then bragging how he’s going to rule the division for at least 3 more fights to then find out Vitali is his mandatory and has to fight him again . It was a clear duck not even Steward wanted him to run from the fight was he unreasonable ?

In fact here’s something from 2008 where Steward still calling for the fight .

[Blond Beast]

Lennox outclassed Tua, went life & death w Mercer, avenged losses to McCall & Rahman, used a shot Mike Tyson for target practice, beat Holyfield once (the 2nd fight was arguable the draw), Bowe ducked him, and he turned Vitali’s eye into hamburger on a career finale. An intelligent and methodical boxer/puncher who could bring the heat, Lennox was a very formidable opponent but I suspect it’s his suspect chin and reluctance to rematch a very game Vitali that might slightly diminish his otherwise top shelf career.

A.

Well put. At times Lennox was hard to like. Still I think at his best he’s capable of beating anyone who ever lived. I’m cndn so I’m supposed to hate him, but I don’t. I remember thinking Tua was going to be champ one day. Tua looked decent for a minute vs Lewis but then after getting painted by a right hand or two his will disappeared. Grant came out wild against him but he survived and turned it into a beating of his own. Tyson looked good for a round but then at least to his credit took a beating before he stayed down. I don’t think Lewis is overrated. He may not me as likeable as other fighters and that should be put it into perspective. Tyson is beloved and in my opinion more overrated than Lewis as far as a complete fighter. Still it’s prize fighting, so I’m not saying Tyson is understated as a star or financial draw. Tyson had a physique that matched the 80s standard, plus at his height and weight, more people could imagine themselves fighting like him.

[HitmanTommy]

I don’t recall any other fighter running away from a promised mandatory then bragging how he’s going to rule the division for at least 3 more fights to then find out Vitali is his mandatory and has to fight him again . It was a clear duck not even Steward wanted him to run from the fight was he unreasonable ?

In fact here’s something from 2008 where Steward still calling for the fight .

I wanted to see the rematch too and was pissed it didn't happen after Lewis promised a rematch, but it just doesn't seem right to fault a man that's 38 years old for not rematching a man that's in his prime. Just think by that point Lewis deserved to ride off in the sunset with a couple of very low risk big money fights after proving himself in the ring many times already. He earned that right.

[HitmanTommy]

Well put. At times Lennox was hard to like. Still I think at his best he’s capable of beating anyone who ever lived. I’m cndn so I’m supposed to hate him, but I don’t. I remember thinking Tua was going to be champ one day. Tua looked decent for a minute vs Lewis but then after getting painted by a right hand or two his will disappeared. Grant came out wild against him but he survived and turned it into a beating of his own. Tyson looked good for a round but then at least to his credit took a beating before he stayed down. I don’t think Lewis is overrated. He may not me as likeable as other fighters and that should be put it into perspective. Tyson is beloved and in my opinion more overrated than Lewis as far as a complete fighter. Still it’s prize fighting, so I’m not saying Tyson is understated as a star or financial draw. Tyson had a physique that matched the 80s standard, plus at his height and weight, more people could imagine themselves fighting like him.

You have a point about Tyson. A lot of dudes could relate to him because of his height and weight. Not many dudes can relate to Lewis seeing as 2% of males in the world are 6'5+.

[REDEEMER]

I wanted to see the rematch too and was pissed it didn't happen after Lewis promised a rematch, but it just doesn't seem right to fault a man that's 38 years old for not rematching a man that's in his prime. Just think by that point Lewis deserved to ride off in the sunset with a couple of very low risk big money fights after proving himself in the ring many times already. He earned that right.

Vitali wasn’t in his prime he was still green and had no real step up fight before Lewis . I’d say he’d probably be in his prime before he would leave boxing a few years due to rotator cuff injuries . We may have seen a peak Vitali in a rematch however we will never know . Had Vitali not been his mandatory we do know Lewis keeps fighting so you can’t really bring a legit argument to defend that fact .

Manny Steward has faulted Lewis not taking the rematch so that’s really end game with that ,he says there’s unfinished business 5 years after that fight ? Lewis was also 38 let’s not do the double standard thing here where we have to list all the older fighters or same age guys that reached there peaks in their late 30”s and where Lewis says he’s got longevity before the Vitali fight because he didn’t receive a lot of punishment .

“Why retire at this point? I still got one or two years left“

Thats what he said before Vitali replaced Johnson.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

B+

Lennox is overrated as **** these days. There's a reason he waited years after Tyson and Holy debutted to debut himself. Same reason he fights neither until they're well primed for losing. Same reason he never defended his undisputed crown. Lennox Lewis was a great boxer, but he's also one of the early career mappers who avoided the best until after it mattered. Only difference between him and newer boxing stars is he started the trend, didn't just follow it.

I respect your opinion but I think that’s harsh tbh man. Yeah Holyfield was on the slide and Mike was a “dead man walking” as Manny put it, I’m not saying Lennox wasn’t calculated and selective cause he definitely was but so was Floyd, so was Ray Leonard, most top fighters are pretty selective in their opposition choices in all honesty.

Even if you take away Tyson and Holyfield, Lewis still has wins over Ruddock, Tucker, Tua, Briggs, Bruno, McCall, Rahman, Mercer, Morrison and then even Vitali when Lewis himself was on the slide.

[Marchegiano]

I respect your opinion but I think that’s harsh tbh man. Yeah Holyfield was on the slide and Mike was a “dead man walking” as Manny put it, I’m not saying Lennox wasn’t calculated and selective cause he definitely was but so was Floyd, so was Ray Leonard, most top fighters are pretty selective in their opposition choices in all honesty.

Even if you take away Tyson and Holyfield, Lewis still has wins over Ruddock, Tucker, Tua, Briggs, Bruno, McCall, Rahman, Mercer, Morrison and then even Vitali when Lewis himself was on the slide.

Well things have to be quantified somehow and these are subjective things. Maybe my B+ is a higher grade than yours.

I won't argue against Lennox's boxing skills, durability, or resume, he was a great champion but this thread asks a personal question and personally I don't think Lennox's legacy is all that great. Well timed and shrewdly considered but not all together nearly as impressive as Floyd's. Floyd Mayweather hardly lost rounds. He probably has the highest round-by round win percentage of any champion in history while fighting way more champions than Lennox had. The only guy I can think of that might beat Floyd at winning rounds is RJJ, but, that's only if you limit it to prime jones. I don't mean just simply unbeaten, you're lucky to point against the man. That has to mean something and to me that's an A+ career. He fought more champions and beat them more dominantly than most champions in any period of history under any rule set once called boxing. I mean, for real, Floyd's legacy stands next to guys like Melankomas as one of the mythical level unbeatable champions. Mel was said to have never dropped a point and no man could get passed his guard, not even in training, not even when taken by surprise. Truth or just myth it makes no difference, that is the history of Melankomas, the champion in 49AD, and from 49AD until Floyd Mayweather Jr. became a champion, no one had even gotten close, but, Floyd's pretty close. Floyd's the closest thing to Melankomas in real life in a modern era no matter how generous you be to any legacy or how harsh you be to Floyd's and that has to quantify as something.

IMO

Floyd and RJJ are A+ alone and like I said, that's only if out-of-prime is forgiven.

Likewise, Lennox has to take a hit for his ****. Maybe you wouldn't give him a B+ but IMO the belts more than justify the grade. Lennox Lewis begged sanctioning bodies to make multiple belts for single divisions. He is why we have WBA Regular, Gold, Recess, Interim, and Super. He is why we have WBC Franchise, WBC, Recess, Interim, and Silver. People give the WBO and IBF a slide but they have interim titles too. Not a single body has a single title for a single division. Because Lennox Lewis had a great idea that was a win-win for everyone except his ****ing; legacy B+ and be happy with it.

[Blond Beast]

You have a point about Tyson. A lot of dudes could relate to him because of his height and weight. Not many dudes can relate to Lewis seeing as 2% of males in the world are 6'5+.

Right. Also Lewis had long arms for his height. Lewis rubbed people the wrong way. He talked in third person. He was cdn then absorbed trying to be totally british. He’s a very subdued commentator, but often what he says is very poignant. Most true fans even if they rooted against Lewis knew that he should be respected more as time went on. He’s 6’5” and has one of the best boxing physiques you could ask for. He always did it his way. I’m a Vitali fan also, and I had him winning. Still Lennox was coming on and tore Vitali’s eye open for the stoppage. It wasent Lewis’s eye that fell apart. I’d have loved a rematch. Both in their best shape. Still Lewis at his heaviest still won, and that shouldn’t be surprising.

[HitmanTommy]

lets get it