Pac/Cotto and the Weight Issue - Logic

[jeffrin]

How's it going, everyone? Long-time lurker, first-time poster here, and I feel the need to be transparent about where I'm operating from before you read on. I've been a casual fan of boxing my whole life, with my interest getting much more intense during the Mayweather/De La Hoya fight up to now - and I've watched quite a few archival (complete, not Youtube clipshows) fights since then. I'm not claiming to know all there is to know about boxing, so if you're looking for a fight with me on a message board, you won't find it here. If there are any intellectuals in the house that just want to discuss/debate boxing and this issue in particular, then by all means, proceed.

So it's no mystery that there's a ton of mud swirling around the Pac/Cotto fight and the WBO Welterweight Title, currently occupied by Miguel Cotto. While I'm in total agreement that the WBO taxing Cotto where it might not be necessary is obviously unjust, I feel like the weight issue itself as it relates to this fight should be a matter of fact/rule, and not up for debate in the first place. From Wikipedia:

A welterweight boxer weighs in at between 140 pounds (63.5 kg) and 147 pounds (66.7 kg).

Now, regardless of the fact that Cotto won the belt at 147 lbs., the catchweight of 145 lbs. is still within the welterweight limit, and thus making this a legitimate welterweight fight, from where I sit. So with taxes and fees aside, why shouldn't this be for the WBO Welterweight Championship?

[Pullcounter]

Cotto doesn't care about the weight, his team thinks they can use it as a bargaining chip to get more money. Even moronic cotto stans should understand this.

It was never about the weight, its all about the money.

If team pac gave some money to cotto for the belt all these idiots would shut up quick.

[Nuurzhaelan]

How's it going, everyone? Long-time lurker, first-time poster here, and I feel the need to be transparent about where I'm operating from before you read on. I've been a casual fan of boxing my whole life, with my interest getting much more intense during the Mayweather/De La Hoya fight up to now - and I've watched quite a few archival (complete, not Youtube clipshows) fights since then. I'm not claiming to know all there is to know about boxing, so if you're looking for a fight with me on a message board, you won't find it here. If there are any intellectuals in the house that just want to discuss/debate boxing and this issue in particular, then by all means, proceed.

So it's no mystery that there's a ton of mud swirling around the Pac/Cotto fight and the WBO Welterweight Title, currently occupied by Miguel Cotto. While I'm in total agreement that the WBO taxing Cotto where it might not be necessary is obviously unjust, I feel like the weight issue itself as it relates to this fight should be a matter of fact/rule, and not up for debate in the first place. From Wikipedia:

Now, regardless of the fact that Cotto won the belt at 147 lbs., the catchweight of 145 lbs. is still within the welterweight limit, and thus making this a legitimate welterweight fight, from where I sit. So with taxes and fees aside, why shouldn't this be for the WBO Welterweight Championship?

Continue lurking.

[ИATAS]

agreed, good first post.

[Talisayen]

How's it going, everyone? Long-time lurker, first-time poster here, and I feel the need to be transparent about where I'm operating from before you read on. I've been a casual fan of boxing my whole life, with my interest getting much more intense during the Mayweather/De La Hoya fight up to now - and I've watched quite a few archival (complete, not Youtube clipshows) fights since then. I'm not claiming to know all there is to know about boxing, so if you're looking for a fight with me on a message board, you won't find it here. If there are any intellectuals in the house that just want to discuss/debate boxing and this issue in particular, then by all means, proceed.

So it's no mystery that there's a ton of mud swirling around the Pac/Cotto fight and the WBO Welterweight Title, currently occupied by Miguel Cotto. While I'm in total agreement that the WBO taxing Cotto where it might not be necessary is obviously unjust, I feel like the weight issue itself as it relates to this fight should be a matter of fact/rule, and not up for debate in the first place. From Wikipedia:

Now, regardless of the fact that Cotto won the belt at 147 lbs., the catchweight of 145 lbs. is still within the welterweight limit, and thus making this a legitimate welterweight fight, from where I sit. So with taxes and fees aside, why shouldn't this be for the WBO Welterweight Championship?

Good thread for a first timer, G karma for you

[Nuurzhaelan]

agreed, good first post.

It's the same old nonsense. It is easily refuted by arguing that if Manny won he would be forced to defend the titles at 147 because no other WW is going to stoop in weight simply to appease the Manny camp. It's not a meritorious fight if the rules are bent to favor one competitor.

Face it, the contract was negotiated and agreed upon but then the Pacquiao camp raised the issue of the title. That's when Cotto stipulated that for the title Manny must come to 147. It's not difficult to understand. Someone on the Pacquiao side is trying to change the rules because Manny has money earning power. A victory at 145 for a title would be hollow at best. It's legal cheating, imo. Why not just have all WW bouts (for titles or not) be at 145 since Pacquiao's team wants THIS one there?

This is a good time to bring up the word 'honor'. It's simle. Do not impose restrictions because Manny does not want Cotto to exceed a certain weight, ostensibly giving him an edge. If he wants to play with the elite at WW, he should not be attempting to angle for victories. It's self evident. A win is not a legitimate win if you feel it necessary to stack odds against your opponent.

If Cotto wants to come in at 145, that's his business. But he should not be required to do it if Manny wants a shot at the title. Basically, it's a handicap because it is intended to keep Cotto from performing at his peak. Is that what you all want?

[jeffrin]

@Pullhunter:

Now, if anything I'm siding with the logic here and say the belt should be on the line, regardless of the sanctioning fees. As far as the money argument, while it's easy to write all of this talk off to finances, I think this deserves a definitive answer. Cotto:

Paco Valcarcel knows better than anybody that 145 pounds is not a division.

That's an accurate statement, but neither is 147 pounds. The range between 140 and 147 pounds is a division. I suppose I'm looking for someone to tell me otherwise with facts to back it up, and not out of blind loyalty to another fighter.

[Nuurzhaelan]

@Pullhunter:

Now, if anything I'm siding with the logic here and say the belt should be on the line, regardless of the sanctioning fees. As far as the money argument, while it's easy to write all of this talk off to finances, I think this deserves a definitive answer. Cotto:

That's an accurate statement, but neither is 147 pounds. The range between 140 and 147 pounds is a division. I suppose I'm looking for someone to tell me otherwise with facts to back it up, and not out of blind loyalty to another fighter.

Because you are immune to lucid reasoning?

[rob6465]

How's it going, everyone? Long-time lurker, first-time poster here, and I feel the need to be transparent about where I'm operating from before you read on. I've been a casual fan of boxing my whole life, with my interest getting much more intense during the Mayweather/De La Hoya fight up to now - and I've watched quite a few archival (complete, not Youtube clipshows) fights since then. I'm not claiming to know all there is to know about boxing, so if you're looking for a fight with me on a message board, you won't find it here. If there are any intellectuals in the house that just want to discuss/debate boxing and this issue in particular, then by all means, proceed.

So it's no mystery that there's a ton of mud swirling around the Pac/Cotto fight and the WBO Welterweight Title, currently occupied by Miguel Cotto. While I'm in total agreement that the WBO taxing Cotto where it might not be necessary is obviously unjust, I feel like the weight issue itself as it relates to this fight should be a matter of fact/rule, and not up for debate in the first place. From Wikipedia:

Now, regardless of the fact that Cotto won the belt at 147 lbs., the catchweight of 145 lbs. is still within the welterweight limit, and thus making this a legitimate welterweight fight, from where I sit. So with taxes and fees aside, why shouldn't this be for the WBO Welterweight Championship?

Welcome to the forum, we need more sane posters and not biased or nuthuuggers. I agree with you that welterweight range is 141-147, everyone...almost everyone...lol...knows that. I think the issue is BOTH fighters verbally agreed that fight would be at 145/NON-TITLE. Cotto and manny agreed to that.Now Pacquiao's team wants the bout to be a TITLE bout. Cotto is okay with that but NOW he wants it at 147. It's pretty much a give and take, which i think is fair. Cotto will agree on a title fight that manny desires and all cotto is asking is TITLE bout be held at 147.

Also, if manny so desires to be Cotto at his best, then cotto's best is 147. Cotto does not care if manny comes in at 141, 144, 146 or 147 BUT manny does not want cotto coming in at 147. Huh???

[rob6465]

I believe that Cotto agreed on 145 to appease the pacquiao team and that way Cotto can fight for more money than he has ever won. I really that cotto did ask to come in at 147 and team pacquiao said NO WAY. Cotto then realized that he might lose chance at all the $ and said ok....145/no title. Pac team agreed and then changed their minds and thought"cotto REALLY wants this fight", let's make it 145/title. Now cotto is thinking, that's fine....title but at 147. Why should manny not want to fight cotto at his best? VERY SIMPLE ANSWER....Because it's cotto's best weight....lol