Lennox Lewis and the KLITCHKO BROTHERS are top 3 heavyweights of all time

[StarshipTrooper]

Totally agree, isn't there a phrase, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck, its a duck.

Well, what do we expect from a product of the Soviet "education" system? With that kind of thinking the wonder isn't that they lost the Cold War but rather that they actually managed to hang around until 1991.

Poet

[GJC]

. If he would fight sub-200 fighters (like Ali) then everybody would complain about the terrible state of the division.

For someone who says look at the whole record rather than individual fights how do you come up with Ali being a sub -200 fighter. Not that this weight obsession is relevant but he fought first dozen or so fights at under 200 but the bulk of his career was at over 200lbs, correct?
Trust me if he fought a fighter like Ali he would lose so maybe there would be less complaints.

[knn]

Totally agree, isn't there a phrase, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck, its a duck.

Oh, yes? What rules did I change? I merely apply the current weight limits. You are the ones who apply outdated rules (= heavyweight limits that don't exist anymore).

[StarshipTrooper]

Pinky Poet found a new hobby: Replying to statements he himself invented. Do you have friends, Pinky? Is there a life without medication, Pinky?

You know how I know knn is Tunney's alt that he uses to say what he REALLY thinks but is too gutless to say it under his Tunney ID? I know because just like Tunney knn just copies and pastes the same worn out reponses instead of actually coming out with something original to say.

Poet

[knn]

For someone who says look at the whole record rather than individual fights how do you come up with Ali being a sub -200 fighter.

Ali is not a sub-200 fighter (at least not for the most of his career).

24 of his fights were against sub-200 opponents, e.g. Jimmy Robinson (170+) or Bob Foster (180+). You are free to add these fights to Ali's cruiser record (= to compare these fights to Haye's fights) or Ali's p4p record. But don't use a win over Henry Cooper or Floyd Patterson (180+) in a comparison with Klitschko.

Not that this weight obsession is relevant

What you call "weight obsession" is called "weight division".

but he fought first dozen or so fights at under 200 but the bulk of his career was at over 200lbs, correct?

Ali fought 15x sub-200. The rest he was 200+.

Trust me if he fought a fighter like Ali

"Trust me, I am a 70ies fan". Hahaha.

[GJC]

Ali is not a sub-200 fighter (at least not for the most of his career).

24 of his fights were against sub-200 opponents, e.g. Jimmy Robinson (170+) or Bob Foster (180+). You are free to add these fights to Ali's cruiser record (= to compare these fights to Haye's fights) or Ali's p4p record. But don't use a win over Henry Cooper or Floyd Patterson (180+) in a comparison with Klitschko.


What you call "weight obsession" is called "weight division".


Ali fought 15x sub-200. The rest he was 200+.


"Trust me, I am a 70ies fan". Hahaha.

Maybe the horrendously skinny lightweight heavyweights of the past might be something to do with the lack of technology re steroids? Maybe the masking agents for said steroids were not as advanced?
You have made numerous accusations with zero proof that Foreman was drugged for the Zaire fight? So if someone who likes to throw accusations that the current heavyweight crop are all taking steroids would you feel that was fair?
As for proof, well a lot are athletes from the eastern block where steroids and enhancing drugs were part of a goverment policy to get success. Vitali was tossed off the Atlanta Olympic team after testing positive for a banned substance. Brother trains with him etc, certainly more proof than your Foreman accusations there?
So can I re-do all HW ratings throughout history into clean fighters and probably steroid abusing fighters?

[StarshipTrooper]

But don't use a win over Floyd Patterson (180+) in a comparison with Klitschko.

Quite right: Patterson was a MUCH better fighter than Wladimir and any comparison is insulting to Floyd.

Poet

[knn]

Maybe the horrendously skinny lightweight heavyweights of the past might be something to do with the lack of technology re steroids? Maybe the masking agents for said steroids were not as advanced?

I am very happy that you started to think about the possibility of deleting Mike "Roid Rage" Tyson and Evan "28-10" Fields and Shannon "Puffed" Briggs from heavyweight rankings.

You have made numerous accusations with zero proof that Foreman was drugged for the Zaire fight?

There is no proof. And there never will be. Even if the guy who mixed the drink would say "It was me" there is still no proof. Anyone can claim to have killed JFK. But I trust Ali's trainer and Foreman on that issue. Moreover I don't claim "drugged". I claim "possibly drugged" or "probably drugged". Ali's biggest achievement in his career was that there was no rematch.

So if someone who likes to throw accusations that the current heavyweight crop are all taking steroids would you feel that was fair?

Steroids or not, winning against a 230lbs opponents is winning against a 230lbs opponent.

As for proof, well a lot are athletes from the eastern block where steroids and enhancing drugs were part of a goverment policy to get success. Vitali was tossed off the Atlanta Olympic team after testing positive for a banned substance. Brother trains with him etc, certainly more proof than your Foreman accusations there?

There is no proof for Foreman's drugging. And there won't be any for Klitschkos using steroids.

So can I re-do all HW ratings throughout history into clean fighters and probably steroid abusing fighters?

Of course you can. Call it the "Steroid-abuse-based-on-honest-youtube-inspection toplist"

[GJC]

And there won't be any for Klitschkos using steroids.

Apart from Vitali admitting to using steroids and testing positive before the 1996 Atlanta Games.
No such proof against Holyfield or Tyson to my recollection?
Proof as opposed to opnion or rumour.

[knn]

Quite right: Patterson was a MUCH better fighter than Wladimir and any comparison is insulting to Floyd.

Of course Floyd Patterson is a better fighter. In the "Pink Floyd" rankings.