The Manny/Floyd/Cotto Triangle (This Is An Intelligent Discussion No Huggers Allowed)

[THE REED]

I'm going to feel ****** once someone tells me this.. but who is SC?

Great post...

[FMJ The Best]

I am being just as sensible as streetbully. LOL.

Cotto, not worthy of being mentioned with Floyd and Manny?

All they have over him is big PPV fights and the megastar status.

Otherwise in terms of skill, he is neck and neck with them.

[sandyvahra]

yeah he probably is, but i think you're kidding yourself if you think he's leaps and bounds ahead

the fight that will definitively decide who finishes above is the head-to-head match-up. So let's pray it happens



dude i thought you wanted a sensible thread

I never said leaps & bounds. I mean Floyd is already a top 50. Manny now is probably a top 30.

I honestly don't know that the head to head matchup will put Floyd over Manny if he won. I think Pac's body of work is just too strong for Floyd's ATG wise. Floyd is the better fighter skill wise no questions asked, but ATG is more than that. It's about achievements, in ring performance, dominance & mainstream appeal. I think Pac's achievements of 6 titles in 6 weight classes & 4 lineal will always be above Floyds. Mainstream Appeal is a no comparison when you look at the impact Pac has in the Phillipines. In ring performance theyre both very different fighters so that's a wash. Excitement wise you give it to Pac, technical boxing wise you give it to Floyd. Dominance I'd have to again give to Pac based on body of work.

Just because Floyd beats Pac doesn't mean he'll be ranked above him. Similar to how Leanord, Hearns & Hagler all beat Duran but nobody in their right mind ranks any of those 3 above Duran ATG wise.

[FMJ The Best]

IDK who this SC is, this was an article borrowed from a fellow site that I can't post the link too. LOL.

[dugongpinoy]

Manny is the best and no 1 ATG of all time. I am not a nuthugger lololol

[S.G.]

I am being just as sensible as streetbully. LOL.

Cotto, not worthy of being mentioned with Floyd and Manny?

All they have over him is big PPV fights and the megastar status.

Otherwise in terms of skill, he is neck and neck with them.

like i said, i believe Cotto is a very good boxer. A very, very good boxer! But i don't think he is of the same class as Floyd and Pacman

If Cotto beats Pacquiao I can categorically say it will only be because of the size disparity. and the same to a lesser degree with Floyd. Though I don't think he has a chance in hell of beating Floyd to be perfectly frank

I never said leaps & bounds. I mean Floyd is already a top 50. Manny now is probably a top 30.

I honestly don't know that the head to head matchup will put Floyd over Manny if he won. I think Pac's body of work is just too strong for Floyd's ATG wise. Floyd is the better fighter skill wise no questions asked, but ATG is more than that. It's about achievements, in ring performance, dominance & mainstream appeal. I think Pac's achievements of 6 titles in 6 weight classes & 4 lineal will always be above Floyds. Mainstream Appeal is a no comparison when you look at the impact Pac has in the Phillipines. In ring performance theyre both very different fighters so that's a wash. Excitement wise you give it to Pac, technical boxing wise you give it to Floyd. Dominance I'd have to again give to Pac based on body of work.

Just because Floyd beats Pac doesn't mean he'll be ranked above him. Similar to how Leanord, Hearns & Hagler all beat Duran but nobody in their right mind ranks any of those 3 above Duran ATG wise.

I understand where you're coming from but I don't believe the disparity in their legacies is so great

Pac's body of work up to this point *****s Floyd's no doubt. But it doesn't fully eclipse it... Add to the fact that Floyd is generally considered the better of the two on a pure skills level and they are pretty close to each other (and yes, talent does effect legacy. As a ratio it's probably 7:3 resume:talent)

I find it difficult to stomach ranking someone above someone esle when the someone else has actually beaten them in a head-to-head and directly proved they are better. It removes the need for speculation to a large degree. And I think most of us are in agreement that size is not a make or break factor in this fight

The fight is 50-50 at the end of the day. It;s not Fighting Harada vs. Eder Jofre

the Duran reference is pertinant to a degree, but i think the two are closer in terms of legacy and the size disparity is not as important

and for the record Id give Floyd to nod over Pac is terms of "dominance". He was almost literally unbeatable at his height. Yes there are intangibles but the point still stands

[VERSION1 (V1)]

Mayweather vs Pacquiao SD-12 at 143/144 at 147 UD or late tko


Cotto vs Pacquiao KO-9 at 147 at 145 or lower i"ll give it to Pacman by Ud or Tko


Mayweather vs Cotto UD-12 or SD-12

[wmute]

Floyd has no business being mentioned with Manny and Miguel you mean.

Both have fought everyone in front of them regardless of how much money they bring to the table or PPV sales they can bring.

Also, neither retires every other month.

My favorite fights from last year have been

Cotto-Williams

Pacquiao-Guzman

It was a pleasure watching those true warriors fighting everyone in front of them regardless of how much money they brought.

[wmute]

Anyways to the original question.

Stylewise this makes sense.

The following are all likely outcomes not saying they would happen exactly that way:

Mayweather will take his time and box Cotto who is too slow predictabel and chinny for Mayweather.

Cotto will crush Pacquiao because he is just too big.

Pacquiao will outwork Floyd and force him to fight out of his comfort zone, winning a hard earned decision.

[sandyvahra]

like i said, i believe Cotto is a very good boxer. A very, very good boxer! But i don't think he is of the same class as Floyd and Pacman

If Cotto beats Pacquiao I can categorically say it will only be because of the size disparity. and the same to a lesser degree with Floyd. Though I don't think he has a chance in hell of beating Floyd to be perfectly frank


I understand where you're coming from but I don't believe the disparity in their legacies is so great

Pac's body of work up to this point *****s Floyd's no doubt. But it doesn't fully eclipse it... Add to the fact that Floyd is generally considered the better of the two on a pure skills level and they are pretty close to each other (and yes, talent does effect legacy. As a ratio it's probably 7:3 resume:talent)

I find it difficult to stomach ranking someone above someone esle when the someone else has actually beaten them in a head-to-head and directly proved they are better. It removes the need for speculation to a large degree. And I think most of us are in agreement that size is not a make or break factor in this fight

the Duran reference is pertinant to a degree, but i think the two are closer in terms of legacy and the size disparity is not as important

and for the record Id give Floyd to nod over Pac is terms of "dominance". He was almost literally unbeatable at his height. Yes there are intangibles but the point still stands

I hear ya, all fair points. Floyd's definitly got the talent in his favour. I guess the comparison in my mind when you look at talent alone then I'd say Floyd & RJJ both should be top 5 ATG. I think when we look at ATG it's not just ok look at this guy's talent, but let's see it tested. This is where I don't think Floyd can really catch Manny. I think it's reasonably safe to say that there are more than enough people who have questioned Floyd's competition, or lack thereof (regardless of circumstance, ducking, whatever you want to call it) at the end of the day when question mark's are left it hurts you.

As far as the head to head comment, again totally hear where your coming from. RJJ beats B-HOP, but I think ATG wise BHOP gets the nod (and im a die hard RJJ fan). As a fighter Roy > Hopkins ever was. ATG wise the other intangibles ***** the head to head imho.

Same type of deal here, because in all honesty I think floyd's is naturally bigger. Regardless of by how much, 2 fights ago Manny was at 135. Floyds been at 147 since 2005? I think that's enough to offset the head to head when looking at ATG.

That being said, it's a shame for Floyd the Tszyu fight never happened at 140, the Marg fight at 147 (only because people were clammoring for it) Or hell if he took Winky's challenge at 154. 3 fights that Floyd probably wins, and had he I dont think anyone qould questions his willingness to fight the best or take the biggest challenges. I'll admit im not a floyd fan, but with his talent he should be a top 10. Only he is holding himself back.