Casamayor = HOF with win over JMM?????????

[DanielTurcotte3]

Yeah but when I do it, it's funny. You're just acting out these gay fantasies that you should really be keeping to yourself.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stickman]

Then BHop, Cotto, Gatti, Joppy, Casamayor, Barrera, Mayweather, Tyson, Lennox, Ward, Winky, Hatton, Calzaghe, Bad Chad.. all pieces of ****. List goes on. All fighters stray from the rules. Not because they can only win that way, not because they're pieces of ****s. It's because you're going through hell with your opponent. You're getting hit on the hip, bullied, maybe you feel a punch slide south, you push, it's a gameplan. You're not playing tennis, you're playing fight till the other man falls down or backs off. It's a dangerous sport and people have died in that ring, so you do what you must to keep things going the way you want it. It's called ring generalship, some fighters get away with it due to biased refs, some get away with it because they're better at it than others, but it's boxing and it's real fighting so you gotta get used to seeing fighters do what they have to.

Speigelo....most of those guys you've named never constantly fought dirty. Occasionally, you might see a shot stray south, or a little manhandling inside, but for the most part, they were decent in the ring, even Tyson, until later on, wasn't a total ****. Hell, even Hopkins didn't start irritating me with dirty tactics until the last 4 or 5 years, though Casamayor has always been one to take a cheap shot if he thought he could get away with it...seems to be a Cuban thing, he isn't the only Cuban that fights that way. Anyway, you're taking everything I've said to extreme. If that's the way you want to believe I meant it, then fine, suit yourself, think what you will.

Look, we're going to disagree on this because you're young and think you're right, and I'm old, and I know I'm right. Rather than have a pissing match about this that neither of us can actually win, because we were each raised with different sense of morality, I'm going to drop this and move onto another topic.

[Stickman]

Yeah but when I do it, it's funny. You're just acting out these gay fantasies that you should really be keeping to yourself.

Seriously, kid, if you thought that was funny, then you just don't know what humor is.

[Spiegelo]

Speigelo....most of those guys you've named never constantly fought dirty. Occasionally, you might see a shot stray south, or a little manhandling inside, but for the most part, they were decent in the ring, even Tyson, until later on, wasn't a total ****. Hell, even Hopkins didn't start irritating me with dirty tactics until the last 4 or 5 years, though Casamayor has always been one to take a cheap shot if he thought he could get away with it...seems to be a Cuban thing, he isn't the only Cuban that fights that way. Anyway, you're taking everything I've said to extreme. If that's the way you want to believe I meant it, then fine, suit yourself, think what you will.

Look, we're going to disagree on this because you're young and think you're right, and I'm old, and I know I'm right. Rather than have a pissing match about this that neither of us can actually win, because we were each raised with different sense of morality, I'm going to drop this and move onto another topic.

Tyson has used his elbows from the early days. He also hits low. Calzaghe pushes, Lennox pushes, palms, and holds/aims, Hatton hits while holding, and generally just wrestles roughly on the inside, Gatti ALWAYS in his fights low blows, Cotto low blowed Judah ruthlessly in what was his biggest fight at the time, even Tito low blowed Vargas after getting hurt to buy time in what was arguably his biggest fight at the time as well. Aside from Gatti and Hatton, those are considered GREAT fighters. But yeah me using facts and examples, I'm just some youth that is at the age of challenging the world and knowing I am right, but you arguing with everyone is just posting the dead truth that you know to be true cause you're old enough for adult diapers. Cong****.

[Mr. Ryan]

My friend, you have no idea what type of person I am, whether I'm strong, mentally, or not, and I have no clue about you, so best we leave that **** out of our discussion, wouldn't you say?

And of course, there will always be unintentional headbutts in boxing, due to it's nature, but then I'm not talking about unintentional butts, am I? Same with body punches that stray a little south accidentally...it happens, and that's not what I'm talking about either. I'm talking about intentional fouls.

And the intentional fouls are penalized with 1 or 2 point deductions and subsequent DQs. If there is intentional dirty play afoot, it is handled within the guidelines of the sport.

And yes, Mayweather using his elbows and pushing with his forearm under his opponent's chin is also cheating. It's clearly against the rules, yet most refs don't even warn him on it. I would, and that is the difference between me, and most of the rest of the world.

So, should his records and titles be stricken from the books?

And just to clarify...the beltline seems to get higher and higher all the time, and what is now a low blow in many cases, would've just been a nice shot to the body on the beltline 25 years ago. DeLahoya wears his belt (and Kevlar body armor, for Christ's sake) absurdly high, and if someone pegged him just below the belt all night long it wouldn't bother me even a little, but then there's a difference between tagging someone on or a little below the belt, and using their cup for a speedbag. Over the years, I've seen a pretty good number of intentional nutshots, and I've also seen a good number of unintentional nutshots. The latter is excusable, the former is not.

Then again, only the top refs can distinguish between intentional and unintentional. The reason being, a lot of these people are just fans of the sport with no boxing experience. I've known judges and refs who I'd classify as groupies.

No, this isn't war, kid, it's a sport. Trust me, I know the difference. I've been to war, and I've played sports, and this is, unquestionably, and without any doubt whatsoever, a sport, and being a sport, it has rules, and those rules are supposed to be obeyed by both fighters. If you are intentionally (remember, that's the difference, intent) breaking the rules, then you are cheating. And just because you aren't winning a fight simply because you're cheating doesn't make you any less of a ****, it just makes you a ****** ****, since you could probably win without cheating in the first place.

You'd have to cleanse out half of the professional ranks if you want strict adherence to the Marques of Queensbury rules. What you'd be left with is Derrick Gainer and Manuel Medina and a few lesser known jab artists. And as a guy who has seen wars like Gatti-Ward and Morales-Barrera, this is war and sportsmanship has it's time and place and it isn't during exchanges.

"Cheating" or "foul play" has it's own ways of being dealt with, point deductions and disqualifications. If you disapprove of the way the sport is being governed, by all means, let me proofread your petition because the sport you're describing well, doesn't exist really. Only in Beijing.

[Spiegelo]

And the intentional fouls are penalized with 1 or 2 point deductions and subsequent DQs. If there is intentional dirty play afoot, it is handled within the guidelines of the sport.


So, should his records and titles be stricken from the books?



Then again, only the top refs can distinguish between intentional and unintentional. The reason being, a lot of these people are just fans of the sport with no boxing experience. I've known judges and refs who I'd classify as groupies.


You'd have to cleanse out half of the professional ranks if you want strict adherence to the Marques of Queensbury rules. What you'd be left with is Derrick Gainer and Manuel Medina and a few lesser known jab artists. And as a guy who has seen wars like Gatti-Ward and Morales-Barrera, this is war and sportsmanship has it's time and place and it isn't during exchanges.

"Cheating" or "foul play" has it's own ways of being dealt with, point deductions and disqualifications. If you disapprove of the way the sport is being governed, by all means, let me proofread your petition because the sport you're describing well, doesn't exist really. Only in Beijing.

Shhh he's been alive twice as long as you and was in the civil war. You can't win with just facts, ******..

[-Swizzy-]

What are your thoughts on Casamayor being a poassible shoe in after a victory over JMM. Do you guys feel as though he is a shoe in with a victory or such an elite fighter in Marquez. Or does he still have some work to do.


He's a 2 division World Champion. Super Featherweight and Lightweight.

Also held the Ring ****zine Belt as best fighter in both divisions.

Victories over the likes of Diego Corrales (2), Nate Campbell, Fringe contender Daniel Santos, and would be one Juan Manuel Marquez.

His losses. JLC and Corrales, both disputed decisions. And lost a UD to Acelino Freitas when Freitas was oo 30-0.

Never been stopped, although he's been down many times.

What are your thoughts on his chances of the HOF?!?!

he will not beat JMM but will still be HOF worthy.

[Mr. Ryan]

Shhh he's been alive twice as long as you and was in the civil war. You can't win with just facts, ******..

You're talking to a guy who has seen fighters bitten, hit low, hit behind the head, all sorts of tricks. Pushing off with the shoulder and then hitting. And this was from the champions, the contenders and no-hopers usually don't catch on as quick. They lack the same survival instincts.

[Spiegelo]

You're talking to a guy who has seen fighters bitten, hit low, hit behind the head, all sorts of tricks. Pushing off with the shoulder and then hitting. And this was from the champions, the contenders and no-hopers usually don't catch on as quick. They lack the same survival instincts.

Oh man the pushing with the shoulder followed up with the big punch... what a great tactic. First fight that comes to mind has to be Hussein vs Pac. I was very worried for Pacman watching that fight, his chin was in question and he was gettin hit with bombs from that ****.

[Stickman]

Well, it sure as hell doesn't exist there, either, or anywhere else.

And for some reason, you think just because I don't agree with intentional fouls, that I think ANYONE who comitts that sin should be have their names stricken from the entire sport...where did I say that? I just stated, initially, that I don't feel that someone who has spent their entire career intentionally fouling their opponents belongs in in the IBHOF. You can disagree with me all you like, but that won't change my opinion, even a little.

I, PERSONALLY, don't like to see it, don't agree with it, and feel that refs should be somewhat more strict with that sort of ****...the INTENTIONAL fouls, that is.

As for recordbooks, HOF entries, I really don't give that much of a ****, to be frank. Most sports halls of fame have a bull**** method of determining eligibility, anyway, and I'm sure either of us could think of maybe half a dozen people who belong in the HOF for one reason or another, that aren't, and just as many that are, but shouldn't be.