Went to a ****zine store tonight . . .

[ShoulderRoll]

KO! -- What ever happened to Jeff Ryan? Do you know if he still writes on boxing?

I don't know what became of Jeff Ryan.

Obviously his KO! partner Steve Farhood works as a Showtime commentator now.

[billeau2]

As an author I may be able to shed some light

I wrote for all the martial arts mags, including Black Belt ****zine. So i may be able to shed some incite into the whole circulation issue being discussed.

A lot of authors, myself included, realized that the net was a lot better place to publish than the mags that circulate in boxing, martial arts circles. When you write the articles you guys read, the pay is lousy, if anyone steals your work, YOU can be sued by the publication to which you sold the piece. Also I hate to say this, its not meant as an insult... but the general attributes of the audience these articles are written for, are about 4th grade reading level.

So by the time you get an article produced, it has been edited down, simplified, and seldom really has much information. Most articles, especially today are really "press releases" more than informative articles. You have exceptions, like the Asian Journal of Martial Arts... but that is the general situation.

These ****zines are struggling more every day. People are buying less printed material, and using the internet more as a source for reading about combatives.

Hope this helps. I stopped publishing stuff for the mags about 15 years ago. I wrote a cover story for Black Belt ****zine, a major fiat right? My check was 500 bucks. Making me paid, at the time, less than a fast food worker. Also, I found out that one of my pieces was plagurized, nothing I could do about it... Hope that I was not sued.

Its a lot less risk being attacked here by Rusty, who could not pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel, than a lawyer for Black Belt asking why my piece appeared in another ****zine when it was sold to them.

[Willie Pep 229]

I wrote for all the martial arts mags, including Black Belt ****zine. So i may be able to shed some incite into the whole circulation issue being discussed.

A lot of authors, myself included, realized that the net was a lot better place to publish than the mags that circulate in boxing, martial arts circles. When you write the articles you guys read, the pay is lousy, if anyone steals your work, YOU can be sued by the publication to which you sold the piece. Also I hate to say this, its not meant as an insult... but the general attributes of the audience these articles are written for, are about 4th grade reading level.

So by the time you get an article produced, it has been edited down, simplified, and seldom really has much information. Most articles, especially today are really "press releases" more than informative articles. You have exceptions, like the Asian Journal of Martial Arts... but that is the general situation.

These ****zines are struggling more every day. People are buying less printed material, and using the internet more as a source for reading about combatives.

Hope this helps. I stopped publishing stuff for the mags about 15 years ago. I wrote a cover story for Black Belt ****zine, a major fiat right? My check was 500 bucks. Making me paid, at the time, less than a fast food worker. Also, I found out that one of my pieces was plagurized, nothing I could do about it... Hope that I was not sued.

Its a lot less risk being attacked here by Rusty, who could not pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel, than a lawyer for Black Belt asking why my piece appeared in another ****zine when it was sold to them.

Interesting post . . . can you elaborate on the plagiarism suit?

What it seems you're saying is, if your article gets stolen, your publisher can accuse you of DOUBLE SELLING the article, and you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

Is that what you are saying?

[billeau2]

Interesting post . . . can you elaborate on the plagiarism suit?

What it seems you're saying is, if your article gets stolen, your publisher can accuse you of DOUBLE SELLING the article, and you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

Is that what you are saying?

1) I was not in a suit. One of my students after class was discussing an article I wrote... He then said the name of the journal. I told him he was mistaken and that the article he was mentioning was published in Black Belt ****zine... sure enough he shows me a third rate journal and there is my article.

I found out through researching what I could do, thinking I was the aggreved party and much to my chagrin:

1) I was not the owner of the article vis a vis, not the aggreved party. Black Belt ****zine was the aggreved party.

2) The remedy for them was to sue the author for selling something that was no longer their property.

And yes... that is what i am saying.

[Willie Pep 229]

1) I was not in a suit. One of my students after class was discussing an article I wrote... He then said the name of the journal. I told him he was mistaken and that the article he was mentioning was published in Black Belt ****zine... sure enough he shows me a third rate journal and there is my article.

I found out through researching what I could do, thinking I was the aggreved party and much to my chagrin:

1) I was not the owner of the article vis a vis, not the aggreved party. Black Belt ****zine was the aggreved party.

2) The remedy for them was to sue the author for selling something that was no longer their property.

And yes... that is what i am saying.

That is a pejorative process for the writer.

I suppose once you clear yourself with Blackbelt (assuming they sued you) only then would Blackbelt be able to go after the third rate publication.

I guess I can understand why the law is written that way, before Blackbelt can protect their property they need to be sure you are not the thief.

I am not sure how else it could be done; would a simple deposition on your part be enough? It would seem to me to be enough. So long as they have you on record they should be able to move against the other publication. But that necessitates you having to lawyer up for the suit. $$$

Boy that puts a chill on wanting to be a ****zine writer; sounds like we are protecting the business before the individual. (No surprise there.)

[billeau2]

That is a pejorative process for the writer.

I suppose once you clear yourself with Blackbelt (assuming they sued you) only then would Blackbelt be able to go after the third rate publication.

I guess I can understand why the law is written that way, before Blackbelt can protect their property they need to be sure you are not the thief.

I am not sure how else it could be done; would a simple deposition on your part be enough? It would seem to me to be enough. So long as they have you on record they should be able to move against the other publication. But that necessitates you having to lawyer up for the suit. $$$

Boy that puts a chill on wanting to be a ****zine writer; sounds like we are protecting the business before the individual. (No surprise there.)

Its complicated... They really cannot go after the other party because that would be between the author and the other party. For example, I would often submit the article and ask to be contacted if they wanted to publish. I don't think I sent it to these guys... But they could feign ignorance.

I am sure the laws could be tweaked, but like so many things the problem is systematic... As an author I had about as much rights to my work as a w h o r e to her body ergo her work. Selling your work for a price should not necessarily give you no interest in the work from that point on. But of you wanted the clout, you took the grocery money they gave you and that was that.

When you get older and more mature you realize that while it made you hot s h it in the martial arts community to a degree, it was really a ****** thing to do from other perspectives. its just not enough compensation to make it worth it. Your last two paragraphs pretty much sum it up.

of course... you have to see it from their perspective. Its like restaurants these days... food costs are astronomical. They have smaller profit margins. As a chef having to design menus, you see how it works from the other end. You realize that a restaurant that charged a good price for quality made product, with culinary graduates would not last a week. I had to hire Mexican workers...great great guys BTW, but I had to pay them much less than a culinary school graduate, and I had to have a price point I would never pay for a meal out lol!

These publications you guys are discussing are towing the line in the same manner. The interweb is destroying them. They have to take and pay little for good work, which they then destroy so a fifth grader could read the article...so more people will buy the mag... And getting a nice lunch out in small town nevada will average out at a cost of 20-30 bucks if its not fast food.

The issue, rather then engendering a legal ethics type paradigm, is more of something we might find debated in early Marxist thought: When we work for another and create a product we cannot ourselves own, we are alienated from the means of production itself, alienated from our own labor, creative process, and alienated by virtue of having no control over what we create and how it is used.

The means of production for these ****zines involves issues that an author has no real understanding of, and no real desire to understand... "Mr Simon, your article is brilliant, we now have to make it appeal to our target demographic...kooter who can barely read his cereal box." Our own labor, creative process is cancelled out as we create a commodity to be consumed, along with nice pictures, etc. No one ever really cares what went into producing the article right? And finally, once we give the rights over to that middle man, the capitalist for Marx, the ****zine, etc... we have no control over how the material is used, advocates, etc.

I write about a technique giving historical basis, and kooter? he reads the highly redacted, edited version and might go smack his wife around using the techniques for all I know.

Thats my take lol.

[siablo14]

1) I was not in a suit. One of my students after class was discussing an article I wrote... He then said the name of the journal. I told him he was mistaken and that the article he was mentioning was published in Black Belt ****zine... sure enough he shows me a third rate journal and there is my article.

I found out through researching what I could do, thinking I was the aggreved party and much to my chagrin:

1) I was not the owner of the article vis a vis, not the aggreved party. Black Belt ****zine was the aggreved party.

2) The remedy for them was to sue the author for selling something that was no longer their property.

And yes... that is what i am saying.

Bileau, you f**cking dummy!
Where Hillary at?

[GhostofDempsey]

I enjoy finding old issues of Ring Mag and other boxing ****zines from the 1980's and prior. The writing was better, the articles had more depth, interviews with champions and contenders, and even the ads are cool to look at (Charles Atlas getting sand kicked in his face). Most ****zines today have way too many advertisements, or articles written by promoters PR teams to pump their fighter. Very little substance now, and this is across the board with just about all ****zines in publication. I used to subscribe to National Geographic, but in the last several years the ****zine is used as a sounding board for political agendas, the photography isn't as good and stories are watered down, no longer telling the story of the people from these different parts of the world in their own words.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Agree about NG becoming politicalized, but let's face it, they were the face of the conquerors with all their Gear and Tech in places they usually weren't invited and made a better living than most of those places.

So developers and airlines saw well to do Westerner luxury resorts and getaways to seize many of the choicest spots from the people that lived there for use of the invaders.

I personally thought what they did all the way thru the
90s was brilliant, and I still have 85-02 on a shelf in my bedroom. My oldest learned to read before kindergarten by looking thru every issue much like I did reading newspaper headlines and the sports section in my day.

[Rockin']

I enjoy finding old issues of Ring Mag and other boxing ****zines from the 1980's and prior. The writing was better, the articles had more depth, interviews with champions and contenders, and even the ads are cool to look at (Charles Atlas getting sand kicked in his face). Most ****zines today have way too many advertisements, or articles written by promoters PR teams to pump their fighter. Very little substance now, and this is across the board with just about all ****zines in publication. I used to subscribe to National Geographic, but in the last several years the ****zine is used as a sounding board for political agendas, the photography isn't as good and stories are watered down, no longer telling the story of the people from these different parts of the world in their own words.

I'll have to find them but I have Boxing Digests, I believe, from when Hilmer Kenty won his title and Thomas Hearns was just coming up. I went to this used book store and they just had piles of old boxing mags for like $1.50. I was always going back up there, bought a bunch of 'em.........Rockin'