Jack Dempsey's Refusal to Fight Joe Jeanette

[travestyny]

- -U Dempsey blow up doll made U cross eyed.

U dolly ain't Dempsey. Gitta grip!

You cry at night because Dempsey only wanted to fight Wills in 2020 according to you


A tad bit late, Mr. Dempsey

[BattlingNelson]

Thought some of you might like to see this even more from Dempsey's perspective.


They Call Me A Bum
by Jack Dempsey as told to John B. Kennedy (September 1925)

If anyone wants the rest of the article, let me know.



From his quotation there, it's clear it's about the color line. My question is....why did he draw the color line before becoming champion? And why for an exhibition?

Dempsey drew the colorline. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise.

In society at that time this was fairly common. There's no question that in most of the united states, black people was seen as secondrated citizens.

So why did Dempsey do it you ask and why already as a contender? I doubt this was because of Dempsey being a racist. At least that's not what is the obvious conclusion. No I think it was because of money. The money was where the heavyweight title is. If it's possible that you can eliminate your opposition without doing fisticuffs, you'd do it. 100s of thousands of dollars was waiting.

So Dempsey eliminated the black segment and he did so with the blessing from most of the public simply because the colorline was a regular thing and because Dempsey was already immensely popular.

[travestyny]

Dempsey drew the colorline. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise.

In society at that time this was fairly common. There's no question that in most of the united states, black people was seen as secondrated citizens.

So why did Dempsey do it you ask and why already as a contender? I doubt this was because of Dempsey being a racist. At least that's not what is the obvious conclusion. No I think it was because of money. The money was where the heavyweight title is. If it's possible that you can eliminate your opposition without doing fisticuffs, you'd do it. 100s of thousands of dollars was waiting.

So Dempsey eliminated the black segment and he did so with the blessing from most of the public simply because the colorline was a regular thing and because Dempsey was already immensely popular.

This makes perfect sense. I'm usually long winded but that's just the bottom line right there.

[QueensburyRules]

Dempsey drew the colorline. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise.

In society at that time this was fairly common. There's no question that in most of the united states, black people was seen as secondrated citizens.

So why did Dempsey do it you ask and why already as a contender? I doubt this was because of Dempsey being a racist. At least that's not what is the obvious conclusion. No I think it was because of money. The money was where the heavyweight title is. If it's possible that you can eliminate your opposition without doing fisticuffs, you'd do it. 100s of thousands of dollars was waiting.

So Dempsey eliminated the black segment and he did so with the blessing from most of the public simply because the colorline was a regular thing and because Dempsey was already immensely popular.

- -Disagree, Nelson.

Why did Jack submit himself to uncounted publicly signed contracts only to have the fight canceled because of racial politics of the day.

Surely you realize that unfounded opinion rolled over to plague even the unparalleled great Joe Louis subscribed to by the usual suspects.

I'll never subscribe to either.

Btw, Schmeling had his title shot vs Braddock canceled by a different sort of politics of his day.

The Ali/Terrell fight cancelled over politics until the new Astrodome owner Judge Roy Hoffienz(sp) had enough political muscle to stage it in Houston where Ali briefly lived.

Politics of which Ali cultivated is why he defended in Canada, England, and Germany.

Blaming ancients while moderns ignore their own transgressions that are officially now the worst I've ever seen in my lifetime will result in this era to be seen as worse than eras preceding it.

They had super computers and 5000 years of recorded history and millions of years of archeological and anthropological history yet they have yet to save mankind from their amply recorded of destruction and annihilation of environments and human cultures.

[HOUDINI563]

The article is presented as Dempsey being called a bum due to the Jeanette debacle where he and his camp were set up and the commissioner of the event told Kearns not to fall for. The article in actuality is Dempseys memories of various events in his career. Towards the end of these various thoughts is this:

Anther drawback to add to those already enumerated and suggested is the general impression that the million-dollar punch of romance is worth a million in reality.

“I‟ve made money – lots of it,” say‟s Dempsey. “More than I could have made in any other business. But not half as much as people think. They read that I got $300,000 for fighting Carpentier. I do get big money, but I don‟t begin to enjoy half of it by the time I‟m through with the managerial split, income tax and training camp expenses. It will cost me from $100,000 to $150,000 to get ready for my fight with Wills. And I‟ll fight Wills, if we‟re both in good health with our reputations unimpaired next September.

“Gene Tunney has a better chance of licking me than Wills, in my opinion. In fact, I expect to see the next champion a young chap like Tunney or Jim Maloney, a hard hitter who has the necessary experience and stamina.

“With me it‟s a matter of business. I‟ve invested enough money to take care of myself and my family. With some of the rest I‟ve had hard luck. My hotel business in California has been through a bad losing season. Now, at thirty, with only a limited time to make money, I‟m going after it. The movies don‟t begin to make the money for me a fight does.
“When I visit Europe they say I‟m ducking fights. Can‟t a man have whatever pleasure he can afford?

[travestyny]

And I‟ll fight Wills, if we‟re both in good health with our reputations unimpaired next September.

Well that turned out to be a lie. And not due to politics, or managers, or promoters.

Dempsey broke the contract. It's a simple fact.

[BattlingNelson]

- -Disagree, Nelson.

Why did Jack submit himself to uncounted publicly signed contracts only to have the fight canceled because of racial politics of the day.

Surely you realize that unfounded opinion rolled over to plague even the unparalleled great Joe Louis subscribed to by the usual suspects.

I'll never subscribe to either.

Btw, Schmeling had his title shot vs Braddock canceled by a different sort of politics of his day.

The Ali/Terrell fight cancelled over politics until the new Astrodome owner Judge Roy Hoffienz(sp) had enough political muscle to stage it in Houston where Ali briefly lived.

Politics of which Ali cultivated is why he defended in Canada, England, and Germany.

Blaming ancients while moderns ignore their own transgressions that are officially now the worst I've ever seen in my lifetime will result in this era to be seen as worse than eras preceding it.

They had super computers and 5000 years of recorded history and millions of years of archeological and anthropological history yet they have yet to save mankind from their amply recorded of destruction and annihilation of environments and human cultures.

I'd love to read your opinions. I gotta admit though.... I cant really understand half of what your post is about. If you want my response, you'll have to elaborate.

English isn't my first language, but I suspect that even some native english speakers have difficulty getting your points.

[billeau2]

- -Disagree, Nelson.

Why did Jack submit himself to uncounted publicly signed contracts only to have the fight canceled because of racial politics of the day.

Surely you realize that unfounded opinion rolled over to plague even the unparalleled great Joe Louis subscribed to by the usual suspects.

I'll never subscribe to either.

Btw, Schmeling had his title shot vs Braddock canceled by a different sort of politics of his day.

The Ali/Terrell fight cancelled over politics until the new Astrodome owner Judge Roy Hoffienz(sp) had enough political muscle to stage it in Houston where Ali briefly lived.

Politics of which Ali cultivated is why he defended in Canada, England, and Germany.

Blaming ancients while moderns ignore their own transgressions that are officially now the worst I've ever seen in my lifetime will result in this era to be seen as worse than eras preceding it.

They had super computers and 5000 years of recorded history and millions of years of archeological and anthropological history yet they have yet to save mankind from their amply recorded of destruction and annihilation of environments and human cultures.

Isn't it kind of a moot point? Whether Dempsey "did it" or wanted to fight and his management "did it." Then we naturally have to ask why his management did it, was it for Dempsey? to make money? out of a hatred towards Blacks? But does it really matter?

My take: Dempsey always came across as decent and the politics of the day, are what they were.

your point about Schmelling can be generalized. Schmelling was a great man yet even my old man, who was very circumspect about making a judgement was under the impression that he was a ****...

to make historical revisions on Schmelling seems an absolute necessity, out of fairness to Max...Not sure if it does much for Dempsey.

I don't get your hate for Ali... We all know he was impressionable and that he said things that were silly, etc... But to refuse to kill other people who you have no beef with is admirable. Ali never said anything ideological about the reason he refused to fight... His quote is simple and direct, as opposed to most of his retorts... He simply said he refused to kill people he had no issues with. He never even mentioned the government, though it was implied.

Agreed last point, this era will make senator McCarthy look like he was being fair minded and sincere... We are heading in the wrong direction.

[Willie Pep 229]

Well that turned out to be a lie. And not due to politics, or managers, or promoters.

Dempsey broke the contract. It's a simple fact.

. . . and the Chicago AC got $1,200 compensation in accordance with the contract's worth, almost nothing. It's a simple fact.

Even on appeal the court still said, it held no greater worth, and was still worth almost nothing. That is a simple fact too.

You want us to believe that every broken contract is an act is motivated by cowardice.

If you want to convince people Dempsey was scared of Wills you need to show more than a broken contact.

[HOUDINI563]

It was a racist time. Most today do not understand how racist these time periods were especially those who live outside the US. The negativity caused by the Johnson era and specifically the aftermath of the Johnson Jeffries bout which Rickard was intimately involved (and who many blamed him for) was the main reason Wills had no chance fighting for the title. The bout fell through several times and this had nothing to do with Dempsey who agreeably signed contracts to fight Wills.

Dempsey was talking about training for his bout with Wills scheduled for September 1925 earlier that year and stated that Tunney would have more of a shot to beat him. Of course this was true. Large slower moving opponents were Dempseys meat. Most everyone concurred including Kearns who stated Dempseys later career was mismanaged. His thought was that Dempsey was rusty and tune up bouts PRIOR to fighting Tunney, including the bout with Wills (which he stated would have been an easy mark) would have given Dempsey the best opportunity to defeat Gene. Understand these statements come after Dempseys break with Kearns so no reason for “Doc” to bolster Dempsey in any way.