The Top 20 All-Time Greatest P4P List

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -I know Sonny.

U pose in U little tighties ain't evidence of higher learning.

Pep
Saddler
Kilbane
McGovern
Saldivar
Driscoll
Lomachenko
Arguello
Miller

^ All fighters who could actually prove they were the world's best Featherweight. And didn't believe in having off-nights.

[QueensburyRules]

- -U pics and vids of U 300 lbs squeezin' squeezin' into U tighties is prime time priceless.

We await with baited breath!

[NachoMan]

This is my top 20 list, which will remain fluid, that way adjustments can be made over time.

1- Ray Robinson

2- Willie Pep

3- Archie Moore

4- Ezzard Charles

5- Harry Greb

6- Roberto Duran

7- Henry Armstrong

8- Barney Ross

9- Benny Leonard

10- Sam Langford

11- Mickey Walker

12- Manny Pacquiao

13- Tiger Flowers

14- Jake LaMotta

15- Jack Dempsey

16- Ray Leonard

17- Emile Griffith

18- Gene Tunney

19- Roy Jones Jr

20- Ike Williams

Plenty of honorable mentions who can easily be rotated on or off the list. In no particular order:

Jose Napoles
Pernell Whitaker
Julio Cesar Chavez Sr
Michael Spinks
Joe Louis
Jimmy McLarnin
Joe Gans
Charley Burley
Sandy Saddler
Holman Williams
Tony Canzoneri

Post up your lists!

I suppose its a fine list, but you've only seen sparse video of most of those guys and don't truly know much about the eras before your time as a fan. Don't see the point it making a list about fighters and eras that you don't really know much about - other than what you've read. But again, seems like a great list.

[NachoMan]

I've been saying for years now that more in this section need to be given the ability to ban certain posters from at least this section. It's the last serious discussion board on this site and would be kept as such. Trolls, racist and other trouble makers should be persona non grata.

Maybe you should put up your own website/forum? Call it 'Jab's Like-minded Boxing Buddies" or something like that.

[JAB5239]

I suppose its a fine list, but you've only seen sparse video of most of those guys and don't truly know much about the eras before your time as a fan. Don't see the point it making a list about fighters and eras that you don't really know much about - other than what you've read. But again, seems like a great list.

I totally disagree with this. With the fighters we have little or no film of, we have newspaper and first-hand accounts. We have trainer accounts. I don't think only reading detracts from a fighters legacy in the least when we have so many other ways to assess their greatness. Especially when we have film of many of their opponents. I would agree it makes it more difficult. But if you're willing to put the time in everything you need to know is right there. Just my opinion of course.

[JAB5239]

Maybe you should put up your own website/forum? Call it 'Jab's Like-minded Boxing Buddies" or something like that.

Why would I want it to be "like minded"?

[GhostofDempsey]

I suppose its a fine list, but you've only seen sparse video of most of those guys and don't truly know much about the eras before your time as a fan. Don't see the point it making a list about fighters and eras that you don't really know much about - other than what you've read. But again, seems like a great list.

It is a challenge when trying to quantify the greatness of a fighter such as Greb, who we have no film on to see him compete. But, we do know based upon his resume how he stacked up against other great fighters such as Tunney, Flowers, Walker, Loughran, Rosenbloom and several other great fighters. Same with Flowers and the limited footage of Langford.

Sometimes that footage can work against a fighter too. The myth and legend of certain fighters is often dispelled when we find footage of them in action. Back in the 50's or 60's, Nat Fleischer had a bunch of sports writers and some boxing insiders together and showed them old footage of some fighters in action. He purposely didn't reveal their identity, until one of the writer's asked "who are these bums?" Turns out it was fighters such as Corbett, Fitzsimmons, and several others. The legends of McVea, Jeffries, and Jeannette don't hold up well when witnessed on film along with many of the other top legends of that era.

This is why I get frustrated with boxing fans who only know or consider fighters of their respective generations. They are often dismissive of other generations that they haven't watched live or on television. I'm not talking about you, I'm speaking in general terms, and a good deal of the posters on NSB.

[JAB5239]

It is a challenge when trying to quantify the greatness of a fighter such as Greb, who we have no film on to see him compete. But, we do know based upon his resume how he stacked up against other great fighters such as Tunney, Flowers, Walker, Loughran, Rosenbloom and several other great fighters. Same with Flowers and the limited footage of Langford.

Sometimes that footage can work against a fighter too. The myth and legend of certain fighters is often dispelled when we find footage of them in action. Back in the 50's or 60's, Nat Fleischer had a bunch of sports writers and some boxing insiders together and showed them old footage of some fighters in action. He purposely didn't reveal their identity, until one of the writer's asked "who are these bums?" Turns out it was fighters such as Corbett, Fitzsimmons, and several others. The legends of McVea, Jeffries, and Jeannette don't hold up well when witnessed on film along with many of the other top legends of that era.

This is why I get frustrated with boxing fans who only know or consider fighters of their respective generations. They are often dismissive of other generations that they haven't watched live or on television. I'm not talking about you, I'm speaking in general terms, and a good deal of the posters on NSB.

Well stated post.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I'll give you the short list.

Lightweight - Joe Gans win
Welterweight - Joe Walcott draw
Middleweight - Stanley Ketchel win
Lightheavyweight - Philadelphia Jack O'Brien win
Heavyweight - Harry Wills win

I could go on with other All time and HOF fighters, but their is really no need.

Hahahaha!

See what being sloppy got you? You fell right into my trap...

For not one of those matches, except Wills, was his opponent not at a significant weight disadvantage.

Gans and McFadden were Lightweights. Langford was not.

Walcott was a Welterweight. Langford was not.

O'Brien and Ketchel were Middleweights. Langford was not.

In the case of McFadden, O'Brien, and Ketchel all his opponents were so far gone, that even if Langford weren't sporting a significant weight advantage, it would still be distasteful to lend much credit to those performances. Wills was very green when he was KO'd, snd would eventually get the better of Langford .

Featherweight McGovern KO'd Gans in what was all but the Lightweight Championship. Gans didn't know Langford from Adam when they met - probably under much less than ideal circumstances. But Gans left the ring on his feet. (But again, you rank Langford, who was never his division's best, #1 P4P, while giving no mention to a kid/man who was the best fighter across three weight divisions at once).

The victory over Walcott was disputable.

And the 6 round fight with Ketchel ended inconclusively.

I'm not saying he wasn't good. But a fighter who beats up on smaller men at the close of their careers is the ANTITHESIS of Pound-for-Pound.

[The plunger man]

Dude, I went off too hard on you. I apologize. Let's dial it back.

Starting with simple questions:

What was Liston's best win?
Would Fury lose to Leotis Martin or Cassius Clay?

What was Foreman's best win?
Would Fury lose to Ali in Zaire, or to Jimmy Young?
Is Fury not much larger and more skilled defensively than Jerry Quarry (whom Foreman admits to have ducked)?

Frazier: best win? Does Fury lose to Ali or Foreman?

Holyfield: Best win? Does Fury lose to Bowe or Moorer?

Tyson: Best win? Does Fury lose to Douglas?

Say what you will about Wlad, Wilder and Wallin
... that's a better set of scalps than any other Heavyweight has ever had.





Did Dempsey ever lose in his prime? The fighters you listed all did.


Anyway... Ghost answered this question well. But I do think it's an interesting question worth addressing. P4P Lists can encompass a lot of factors which divisional lists don't.

I personally have many fighters at the top of my p4p list whom i don't rank highly in ANY divisional list - their careers just didn't neatly fit into a single weight class.

Again, not trying to answer for Ghost, but Dempsey's rise to champion is part of his greatness. Completely different reality than modern coddled fighters. And he really revolutionized the sport.

.
Tromboni again you never read it properly ...I was talking about Ali having the ones I talked about on his record and I was talking about lennox Lewis having the holyfields and Tyson’s on his record....they are all time great heavyweights not fury and as I said if fury go’s on to beat Joshua , uysyk , dubois and then retires then we can evaluate fury’s place in history.
What we have at the moment is another heavyweight champion calling him out who has more belts and brings more money to the table and here you are trying to claim fury is the best heavyweight of all time.
So now your comparing the foreman’s and Frazier’s of this world with chisora and hammer....your ****ing nuts tromboni lol