what if

[Kid Achilles]

Put smaller gloves on Ron Lyle's hands and let's see how Foreman surives. The arguement works both ways, and really only against Foreman by your logic since you seem to think the bigger gloves really prevent concussions (which they don't). By your logic Foreman, who was hurt and knocked out by opponents wearing larger gloves, would get slaughtered by a better puncher in Louis wearing the smaller 8z gloves of the time.

Foreman may have only been stopped once, but it was by Ali, a weaker puncher than Louis, the only man to stop a prime Baer (and even then he was a bit removed from his prime and had an injured right hand at the time of the fight). Baer was decisioned often in his youth but had never been floored until he met Louis, an all time great puncher, who hit him almost at will with flush punches. Max took an awful beating in that fight and though he continued to fight and have some success, he was not the same.

Criticising those stoppages to Nova (a damn good puncher in his own right, at least as hard hitting as Ali) late in Baer's career is like saying Tyson had a ****ty chin for getting stopped by McBride. Also one of the Nova stoppages was due to cuts on Baer's face and mouth, and not any fault of his chin.

At his best, Baer was nearly impervious to punishment whereas it was always possible to hurt Foreman if you stood up to him and hit him flush (which few people did).

[Southpaw Stinger]

Foreman may have only been stopped once, but it was by Ali, a weaker puncher

Foreman was beat by exhaustion not hard punching.

Put smaller gloves on Ron Lyle's hands and let's see how Foreman surives

that also works both ways so again I see Lyle getting KO'd.

it was always possible to hurt Foreman if you stood up to him and hit him flush

Wasn't even once knocked down in his come in his 40's I don't think. And he took a lot of flush shots in the time.

And for the record I never questioned Baers chin, I just think it's wrong for you to downgrade Foremans chin when he clearly fought bigger guys than Baer fought and he went toe to toe with harder punchers.

[BKM-]

Put smaller gloves on Ron Lyle's hands and let's see how Foreman surives. The arguement works both ways, and really only against Foreman by your logic since you seem to think the bigger gloves really prevent concussions (which they don't). By your logic Foreman, who was hurt and knocked out by opponents wearing larger gloves, would get slaughtered by a better puncher in Louis wearing the smaller 8z gloves of the time.

Foreman may have only been stopped once, but it was by Ali, a weaker puncher than Louis, the only man to stop a prime Baer (and even then he was a bit removed from his prime and had an injured right hand at the time of the fight). Baer was decisioned often in his youth but had never been floored until he met Louis, an all time great puncher, who hit him almost at will with flush punches. Max took an awful beating in that fight and though he continued to fight and have some success, he was not the same.

Criticising those stoppages to Nova (a damn good puncher in his own right, at least as hard hitting as Ali) late in Baer's career is like saying Tyson had a ****ty chin for getting stopped by McBride. Also one of the Nova stoppages was due to cuts on Baer's face and mouth, and not any fault of his chin.

At his best, Baer was nearly impervious to punishment whereas it was always possible to hurt Foreman if you stood up to him and hit him flush (which few people did).

You must be joking..i mean you are comparing Max Baer, a ****ing clown of a heavyweight, to one of the best Hws ever. I'll just wait untill you admit you were joking, untill then i'll play along.

Smaller gloves cause a lot more damage, everyone knows that. As far as the Ron Lyle comment, that may be right, but Max is no Lyle. He's ****. He was ko'd by a 200 pound nobody. A nobody compared to Morrison, Holyfield, Lyle etc who were bigger and hit harder. You can't compare his chin to Foreman. Ali ko'd Foreman because he was tired and had nothing left. I think you even said that in a thread once.

Max Baer was never floored before louis because that was the first good fighter he fought. He fought nobody's compared to Foreman. And the first time someone fights back, he's ko'd in 1. When someone fough Foreman back, Foreman was down and came back to win.

Tyson had a ****ty chin because of Mcbride? he quit because Mcbride was a smelly **** who was leaning with 270 pounds on him. Not because he hit Tyson hard. Like Mike said ''He didn't hit me hard, he hit me like he's French''. You cant compare this.
Foreman ko's Baer in 1.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Fighters from Baers period are usually overated. I think Louis is one of the only guys from that time who can be considered great.

[Kid Achilles]

You can go on believing what you want, but the truth is Baer would have a great chance against Foreman and was the more durable (taking into consideration chin AND stamina) of the two.

[SABBATH]

Baer tends to be overrated as a fighter and a puncher. His three best names on his KO resume are Max Schmeling, Primo Carnera and Tony Galento (a truly awful fighter). Schmeling was worn down late in the fight and took a successive of right hand swipes (including back-handers) to finally bring Max down. Carnera was floored alot and in the absence of a mandatory 8 count kept getting back up and lasted into the 11th and Galento quit in his corner claiming a broken hand.

The rest of Baer's bigger name opponents Ernie Schaff, Tommy Loughran, Johnny Risko, Paolino Uzcudun, King Levinsky, Jim Braddock all went the distance with Baer and with the exception of Levinsky all of them defeated "The Clown Prince". Only Schaff weighed over 200 lbs.

Baer's fighting style was also primitive. He was a wild right hand obsessed puncher with little hand speed, technique, defence or mobility.

Here's a few samples of his most famous fights.



For a fighter to qualify as a "Hardest Hitter" he need KO's over proven chins. Foreman had Chuvalo, Frazier, and Lyle. Baer's win or KO resume isn't comparable.

[Southpaw Stinger]

For a fighter to qualify as a "Hardest Hitter" he need KO's over proven chins. Foreman had Chuvalo, Frazier, and Lyle. Baer's win or KO resume isn't comparable.

very true man.

[Kid Achilles]

I go by what my eyes see and what opponents of these fighters say about their power, as well as experts and men in boxing who actually watched these guys spar and hit the bags. Foreman beat Chuvalo, Frazier, and Wepner as far as fighters with outstanding chins goes and I'd consider only Chuvalo above Galento in terms of durability.

Galento looked a fat slob but he could really take a punch and give one. I'd rate his chin over Lyle and Frazier (but of course as a complete package he was nowhere near Joe's level) and Baer had him pissing his ****ing trunks with his power.

Sure objectively you could rate Foreman's power higher just by looking at the numbers, but they don't tell the whole story. We'd have to put Baer in with Foreman's opposition, or Foreman in with Baer's opponents, to get an accurate comparison of KO% and quality chins dusted.

I am of the opinion that Baer and Foreman were on the same level as punchers. I'm sure one hit harder than the other, but not significantly so.

[SABBATH]

Galento looked a fat slob but he could really take a punch and give one. I'd rate his chin over Lyle and Frazier (but of course as a complete package he was nowhere near Joe's level) and Baer had him pissing his ****ing trunks with his power.

I suggest you watch my link which includes Baer-Galento and Galento sure as hell wasn't "pissing his ****ing trunks". He took everything Baer hit him with and still kept coming despite a wide open face first style. This is pure unsubstantiated exaggeration on your part.

I also suggest you watch the Lou Nova clip and count how many clean solid right hands Baer hits Nova with who walks right through them.

[Kid Achilles]

That clip leaves out the fact that Galento quit before the 8th round of the fight claiming that he couldn't breath. There was never a hand injury, as the video claims, Galento was simply unwilling to endure any more of Max's punches.

As for the Nova fight, where a shopworn Baer has trouble taking him out, how about a young Foreman going a total of twenty rounds with light-heavyweight Gregoria Peralta and landing his share of hard blows without producing as much as a knockdown.

Are you going to tell me Foreman wasn't an all time great puncher because of that?