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The Lineal (and true) World Heavyweight Title

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    #1

    The Lineal (and true) World Heavyweight Title

    If we agree on that Wlad Klitschko won the vacant lineal title when defeating Ruslan Chagaev (as most find accurate), and the title went on to Tyson Fury after beating Wlad …

    Is Fury (the challenger coming out of retirement) vs Wilder (the alphabet champ) for the genuine world title?
    #2
    I don’t see how beating Cagaev gave Wlad the lineal title. Boxing has become so convoluted the past nearly 40 years it really impossible to accurately determine lineage. I am horrified to state this as fact at least in the hwt division.

    If we state with assurance Fury was the lineal champion it all depends if he announced his retirement or was just stripped. If he did not officially retire he would still be the lineal champion.

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      #3
      I see it like that. That said the lineal title is kinda bs so w/e.

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        #4
        It's a tricky one.

        Ali announced retirement in 1979, still it didn't stop Holmes from being accepted lineal after beating Ali.

        A champ retiring and making a comeback 10 years later, his claim to the lineal title wouldn't be much worth.
        Fury stayed inactive two and a half years, yet claims to still be the lineal. Acceptable?
        Well, I buy it. Just because I'm so fed up with the alphabet orgs.

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          #5
          Originally posted by Eff Pandas View Post
          That said the lineal title is kinda bs so w/e.
          It's almost 300 years of boxing history. Until some alphabet orgs popped up ...

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            #6
            Originally posted by Ben Bolt View Post
            It's almost 300 years of boxing history. Until some alphabet orgs popped up ...
            The problem of the lineal title concept for me is everyone NEVER fights everyone. And I don't mean that in the extreme way one can take it. I merely mean it in the reasonable way of fighting top contenders.

            Look no further than George Foreman's run as lineal champion & the fact Shannon Briggs IS a guy on the lineal champion list as an example of how this concept can be problematic.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Eff Pandas View Post
              The problem of the lineal title concept for me is everyone NEVER fights everyone. And I don't mean that in the extreme way one can take it. I merely mean it in the reasonable way of fighting top contenders.

              Look no further than George Foreman's run as lineal champion & the fact Shannon Briggs IS a guy on the lineal champion list as an example of how this concept can be problematic.
              So are Tommy Burns and Jimmy Braddock, hardly the best of their era.

              I don't argue with you, it's just that I'm so disappointed of a sport that had this unique concept of appointing champions, but which is now buried.

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                #8
                Fury retired, so to me that vacated the lineal title and the only way to crown a new lineal champion is for Wilder to fight Joshua (unless one or both lost before that fight happened).

                Manny Pacquiao was the lineal welterweight champion, retired for six months, came back and lost (a bogus decision, but still) to Horn. Nobody considered Horn the lineal champion for that win, just as nobody considers Crawford the lineal champion for beating Horn.

                If you retire voluntarily or leave the weight class for an extended period of time, you're not the lineal champion anymore.

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                  #9
                  It depends

                  Originally posted by Ben Bolt View Post
                  If we agree on that Wlad Klitschko won the vacant lineal title when defeating Ruslan Chagaev (as most find accurate), and the title went on to Tyson Fury after beating Wlad …

                  Is Fury (the challenger coming out of retirement) vs Wilder (the alphabet champ) for the genuine world title?
                  Lennox Lewis was the last unquestioned lineal heavyweight champion; that's without dispute.

                  Unless you're one of the folks that count 'Klitschko brothers' as lineal champion, it's been a scramble from there; Wilder-Joshua would be THE fight to establish a new lineage.

                  If you believe that Wlad's dominance eventually simply 'got' him the lineal Championship (Chagaev was never such a world beater for that fight to actually be determinative, tbh), Tyson Fury beat him to become lineal champion and then you have to figure out how you treat Fury's lay off from the ring.

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                    #10
                    Lineal champion has nothing to do with being the best. The lineal title is the presents link to boxing’s history and past great champions.

                    Foreman was the true champion because he beat the lineal true champion. In the past it was difficult to avoid the top challengers because the public’s clamor and $ would make the fight(s) happen with rare exceptions.

                    The lineal title is so important but even I have given up. Boxing today is a convoluted mess and has been for nearly 40 years. In the hwt division the link to boxing’s past has been broken beyond repair. Blame the promoters and commissions.

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