Mike Tyson: Exciting and explosive for sure, but not an ATG heavyweight

[tonysoprano]

He's an ATG for what he did up to the Spinks fight.

Everything after that lowers his status but shouldn't take away from what he did up to 88. He unified and cleaned out the HW division by the age of 22. You will never see anyone do that again.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Tyson’s one of my favourites and the reason I started boxing but doesn’t change the fact that he did not have heart. He was not a blood and guts warrior. He was not an Arturo Gatti. He was not a joe Frazier. He was the bully at the playground.
And how was Holmes a feared and ducked heavyweight, to lazy to check but I’m fairly certain Holmes was 38 and hadn’t fought in 2 years.

Larry Holmes was absolutely feared in the division for what he was doing to guys at the time. He doesn't get nearly the credit he deserves, equal to Foreman in terms of destruction. Too many people only remember the latter-day Holmes and not the one who was getting heavyweights out of there with ease.

He's an ATG for what he did up to the Spinks fight.

Everything after that lowers his status but shouldn't take away from what he did up to 88. He unified and cleaned out the HW division by the age of 22. You will never see anyone do that again.

Exactly this. People crap on Tyson for how he lost - and so do I - but his run up to Douglas will never be duplicated or surpassed by anyone.

I maintain to this day, had Cus not died when he did and had Tyson not hooked up with Givens, he would have had a Chavez Sr. streak.

[HOUDINI563]

No. Holmes was never a “feared” hwt. Never a huge puncher. When he fought Tyson Larry was wayyyy past his best and had not fought since losing to Spinks. Larry himself says that when Don King visited him to ask about a possible bout with Tyson his response was “I can’t beat Mike Tyson!” Larry was there to collect a nice paycheck.

Foreman was feared. An atomic puncher of incredible proportions.

[NChristo]

Tyson was an ATG Heavy - youngest HW champion in history, first to unify titles, but I do agree he wasn't "the best".

But the idea he didn't fight and beat guys in his prime?

• Tony Tucker's first loss was Tyson
• Larry Holmes - the guy who decisively beat almost everyone who beat Ali AND Ali himself - was still a heavily ducked beast when he fought Tyson, only ever really lost to some of the best to lace them up. Tyson WALKED through this monster.
• Michael Spinks, another feared beast, definition of prime, DESTROYED in one round by Tyson and never laced them up again

I can't call him the best because of how he lost when he did lose, but to dismiss his accomplishments is a joke to me.

Definition of prime is being above his career weight, having shot knees and only having 1 fight in the previous 2 years ?, he held the title hostage untill so he could get 1 last big payday then get out of the sport, he may as well have been retired before the Tyson fight.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Larry himself says that when Don King visited him to ask about a possible bout with Tyson his response was “I can’t beat Mike Tyson!”

You're mixing up what Tyson said in response to King about a fight with Foreman.

Larry Holmes was one of the best in class at that time. You can't find a better resume at HW.

[HOUDINI563]

No I am not.

Holmes had already lost the second time to Spinks and had not fought in almost TWO years and was 38 years old. He told King he could not beat Tyson but signed the contract for the million dollar payday. Holmes was years past his prime.

[HOUDINI563]

As a further example MOST would say Holmes at his best was vs Norton in 1978. That was TEN YEARS prior to losing to Tyson. By 1985 after his win against Tim Witherspoon it was obvious to everyone that Holmes had slipped badly. His two loses to Spinks a few years later illustrated that he was now a former great fighter no longer able to fight at his former prime level.

[elfag]

Tyson was not a ATG as to be an ATG a hwt champion has to show ATG will to win and the ability to rise to beat adversity. Tyson was a bully with a bullies mentality.

Also he won a political title at a young age but did not become hwt champion UNTIL he beat Spinks which was years later. Political titles are meaningless and do not compare to as an example Ali beating Liston or Louis beating Braddock to win the true title.

Tucker was never hwt champion. Period.

Holmes was no monster when Tyson fought him. He was a rusty old hwt WAYYYYY past his prime.

Spinks was never considered a “beast”. He was light hwt champion who was able to outbox an old Holmes.

Dumbest thing ever. How is Tyson a bully for beating grown ass men, professional boxers. People act like Tyson was fighting 12 year old school children or something.

Tyson cleared out the heavyweight division. Cleared it out. Beat everyone by his early 20s. Lennox was still in the amateurs. Holyfield was still a cruiserweight. Tyson fought old man holmes because that was who was available to fight.

You rate holmes so highly, was his resume any better than Tysons? who did he beat? Norton and shavers in the late 70s, is that so impressive?

[elfag]

As a further example MOST would say Holmes at his best was vs Norton in 1978. That was TEN YEARS prior to losing to Tyson. By 1985 after his win against Tim Witherspoon it was obvious to everyone that Holmes had slipped badly. His two loses to Spinks a few years later illustrated that he was now a former great fighter no longer able to fight at his former prime level.

And?

Yet Tyson is given crap for losing to Holyfield in 1996. Also a good 8 years past his prime.

[TonyGe]

Tyson in his prime was a monster. Definitely an ATG.