Larry Holmes never gets the credit he deserves!

[Ben Bolt]

Holmes title claim comes from beating Norton the Universal No 1 contender.

What are you talking about? Ali never announced retirement in 1978 (he did in 1979). He beat Spinks for the lineal title.

Yes, Norton was the best of opposition in those days. Still, his loss to Holmes didn't make Holmes a world champion.

Let's take WBC for what it is - the org never seem to have heard of Wlad Klitschko, as it never recognized him as title holder.
The alphabet orgs' hunt for sanction money haven't anything to do with sportsmanship.

[HOUDINI563]

Never stated Holmes was recognized as champion by beating Norton.

When a hwt champion retires choosing who the rightful next lineal champion is sometimes easy (Sharkey fighting Schmeling) and sometimes difficult (Ali retiring in 79).

Historians in this case must look at the history in its totality. Holmes beat Norton the universal No 1, Ali retired and then unretired to fight Holmes. The combination of defeating both Norton and Ali is enough evidence to crown Holmes the next rightful lineal champion.

On the other side of the coin the WBA had a turnement involving unworthy challengers which Tate won. That line of paper champions were just that paper champions whose title was worth nothing.

[HOUDINI563]

I should correct myself. SOME did call Norton champion at that time (I didn’t) as he was the WBC paper title holder. Once Holmes beat Norton SOME called Holmes champion.

[TBear]

No. The title Tate, Weaver etc geld was meaningless. Those fighters were never hwt champion of the world. Holmes title claim comes from beating Norton the Universal No 1 contender AND by beating Ali. The Ali win although against a old faded sick Ali gives Holmes a link to the lineal title.

Also Holmes lateral movement was not that great. Good yes but nothing compared with Ali as an example.

Actually The Ring, if you consider their champion lineal, declared Holmes Champion after the night he beat Leroy Jones. The same night Weaver won the WBA title and Holmes had beat Weaver in a title bout previously. Ironically Leroy Jones was one of the last fighters to have beaten Mike Weaver.

[HOUDINI563]

Beating Jones had nothing to do with his lineage.

The fact that Holmes beat Weaver and Weaver beat Tate is a stretch to say the least.

[HOUDINI563]

As I thought here is a list of Ring champions. Note Holmes is recognized as champion for the first time the night he beat Ali.

[HOUDINI563]

Box Rec:

Won the lineal World Heavyweight Championship when he defeated Muhammad Ali by a 10th-round RTD on October 2, 1980. Holmes defended it 12 times.

[HOUDINI563]

More:

[HOUDINI563]

More:

[Ben Bolt]

Actually The Ring declared Holmes Champion after the night he beat Leroy Jones.

Note Holmes is recognized as champion for the first time the night he beat Ali.

The Ring did recognize Holmes as world champ after beating Jones. The win over Ali, even though Ali wasn't considered a title holder but a challenger, made it a strong case calling it lineal.

It kind of reminds of Ezzard Charles. We generally see him as a world champ from 1949 after beating Jersey Joe, but it wasn't until a year later, after the Louis win, that his reign became undisputed.

I'm not sure I remember right (TBear still have the old ****zines), but at the same time that Holmes got recognition due to the Jones victory, WBC light heavy champ Saad Muhammad also got rewarded with the Ring belt because of a previous win over the newly crowned WBA champion.