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Being unbeaten, doesn't mean you are the best

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    Being unbeaten, doesn't mean you are the best

    Does anyone agree that Marciano was only unbeaten because he was lucky?
    He was lucky for these reasons;
    1. He got to his title shot by beating mostly unknowns. Guys with as many as 57 losses!
    2. He got a decision over Roland LaStarza that was "universally criticised" as being unfair. The fact that Marciano's manager was the matchmaker for Madison square garden, was the major reason as to why Rocky was gifted it.
    3. He also got a decision over Ted Lowry which even Ring ****zine accepts was a robbery.
    4. He fought a 37 old for the title, who already had 16 losses. # Side note, a man at 37 in those days was a lot more worn out than today's equivalent, having a much tougher life, and many more gruelling fights, plus they were 15 rounders back then, as some younger readers might not be aware.
    5. His title defences were against either old men (some sources list Moore as 45) or men who had moved up in weight, or both. Don C#ckell had been stopped by former middleweight Randy Turpin, and looked like the worst title challenger in history...although he did have guts.
    6. Of his 6 defences, 3 were against guys he had already beaten and if we include his title win, his 7 opponents had 87 losses between them, often inflicted by light heavies and even middles.
    7. His nose injury suffered in the Charles bout was easily bad enough for the fight to be stopped, and if the injury was on Charles, I think it is safe to say that the fight would have been stopped.
    8. He didn't want anything to do with Liston, and was challenged by Patterson, who was young, unlike all the men he had been beating, and had been looking awesome, which was later backed up by his performance against Moore, in comparison to Rocky's. He therefore retired younger than his title challengers.
    Any decent prospect could beat 49-0, if they were matched right, and if that was the only goal. Hell, line me up 50 90 year olds, and hopefully, I would beat it!
    Hope you enjoyed the article. I am not looking to diss anyone, nor am I looking for arguments, just want to see what others think.
    Last edited by chaconfan; 05-20-2017, 07:34 AM.

    #2

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      #3
      Originally posted by chaconfan View Post
      2. He got a decision over Roland LaStarza that was "universally criticised" as being unfair. The fact that Marciano's manager was the matchmaker for Madison square garden, was the major reason as to why Rocky was gifted it.
      This one is really interesting & legit lucky. This fight woulda been a draw I believe in every other state in the US besides NY as the official judges had it a split draw, but at the time NY had a supplemental scoring system that was basically a tie breaker for a draw & Marciano won via that system when in another state it'd have just been a draw that would have put a mark on his still undefeated, but not perfect record anymore with that draw.

      I believe he also took a L or two after his pro debut when he went back to the amateur game for a year & change which is an interesting side note that could be considered lucky to Rocky's perfect record.

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        #4
        Originally posted by BM dnobagaV View Post
        Lol........

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          #5
          Of course being unbeaten doesn't mean someone is the best. It usually means, like Ali said, that they didn't fight everyone. There was that big list posted a while back of all the undefeated boxers and few of them were significant at all, maybe just Marciano, Mayweather and possibly Calzaghe, the rest was a lot of crap.

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            #6
            In Rocky's defense, he fought whoever was there during his reign. Like Holmes later on he was a champion without a big name opponent, he was in a division that was after Louis and prior to the Ali era. But, Rocky did a lot with very little. He was a great all around athlete and wanted to be a baseball player. When that didn't pan out he turned to boxing. He got off to a late start and his trainer Charley Goldman took this raw, clumsy kid and developed his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Rocky was a guy who did more with less. A small HW even by 1950s standards, he fought whoever they put in front of him and never bad-mouthed an opponent. He was one of the first fighters to help raise money for Ezzard Charles when he was dying of ALS.

            In hindsight we can pick apart a lot of great fighter's and not-so-great fighter's records. But, records don't tell the whole story. You have to factor in their entertainment value, their heart, their skills, determination, discipline, and ability to overcome adversity. While Rocky could have been stopped in that Charles fight where his nose was busted open, he also could have quit or found a way to get the fight stopped on some other bogus injury like the "great" Berhard Hopkins or Mikey Garcia. He never took steroids, he never bit off anyone's ear, never dropped his title in the trash to duck an opponent, and he carried an entire division on his shoulders without any other great HWs to help do the lifting. He deserves to be in the top ten all-time, but where he is placed on that list will always be up for debate.

            And yes, unbeaten doesn't = great in and of itself.

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              #7
              Originally posted by GhostofDempsey View Post
              In Rocky's defense, he fought whoever was there during his reign. Like Holmes later on he was a champion without a big name opponent, he was in a division that was after Louis and prior to the Ali era. But, Rocky did a lot with very little. He was a great all around athlete and wanted to be a baseball player. When that didn't pan out he turned to boxing. He got off to a late start and his trainer Charley Goldman took this raw, clumsy kid and developed his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Rocky was a guy who did more with less. A small HW even by 1950s standards, he fought whoever they put in front of him and never bad-mouthed an opponent. He was one of the first fighters to help raise money for Ezzard Charles when he was dying of ALS.

              In hindsight we can pick apart a lot of great fighter's and not-so-great fighter's records. But, records don't tell the whole story. You have to factor in their entertainment value, their heart, their skills, determination, discipline, and ability to overcome adversity. While Rocky could have been stopped in that Charles fight where his nose was busted open, he also could have quit or found a way to get the fight stopped on some other bogus injury like the "great" Berhard Hopkins or Mikey Garcia. He never took steroids, he never bit off anyone's ear, never dropped his title in the trash to duck an opponent, and he carried an entire division on his shoulders without any other great HWs to help do the lifting. He deserves to be in the top ten all-time, but where he is placed on that list will always be up for debate.

              And yes, unbeaten doesn't = great in and of itself.
              Good post. While we can pick Marcianos resume apart, there's not one qualified heavy weight contender in that era Marciano didn't fight.

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                #8
                So true, I think we should get over the 0 obsession immediately because it hurts the sport hard.
                Fighters don't want to face any challanges because they think if they lose their 0 it's over.
                I truly believe there is no such thing as the best but die besten, the best ones. I don't care if Floyd is an 0 but Morales has 10 plus Ls, to me both are one of the best and none is better than the other.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by boxinggod101 View Post
                  Lol........
                  No idea what you find funny, so I can't comment.

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                    #10
                    I like people like yourself. Those who look at things from different perspectives and consider all angles.
                    I have NOTHING against Rocky, and my point is made because I have been seeing lots of arguments on youtube by uneducated people saying things like, "he is OBVIOUSLY the best, because no one else was unbeaten".
                    My argument will always be, neither would most of the heavyweight champs in history if they fought his opponents. Even the four greats he beat were not in their peak years or at their peak weights.
                    Thanks for your time and input.

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