Is Roberto Duran the best lightweight of all time?

[kayjay]

I don't know about that, bud. Whitaker was as tough as nails beneath his slickster exterior. He had a mean streak as wide as Duran's, IMO. Remember, even a shot Pernell went the full twelve with Trinidad, who hit a hell of a lot harder than Duran.

You' may be right, but I wasn't assuming that Duran had more power than Trinidad, only that he would be more able to dictate the pace and style of the fight. Again, though, there's no good reason for me to think Whitaker could have been stopped.

[titoi]

To me the difference in a Duran/Whitaker matchup would be: at lightweight Duran could hurt Whitaker but nothing Whitaker had could hurt Duran. Sweetpea was awesome and could have caused Duran a lot of grief ala Benitez in terms of evading blows but he couldn't have capitalized like the bigger Benitez did. If it goes the distance then maybe Whitaker wins but a knockout could only go one way.

[brownpimp88]

Bpimp I know you've studied your boxing history so I know you know all about the 'no mas' match. You can't use that in an assessment of Duran.

You refer to Pernell being 'more skilled', which counts on a certain estimation of 'skill'. but Duran is the more completer fighter. Pernell could not have so much as poppped a zit on Duran if the man had one at the time, and Duran likely would have KO'd Pernell.

Trinidad has ko'd and viciously beat up guys like mayorga, vargas and joppy. Name 1 fighter from the higher weights that duran ko'd, who is as good as these guys when it comes to toughness.Trinidad is the harder hitter. However, he couldnt ko a SHOT pernell, a man that is only half his size.

[kayjay]

Trinidad has ko'd and viciously beat up guys like mayorga, vargas and joppy. Name 1 fighter from the higher weights that duran ko'd, who is as good as these guys when it comes to toughness.Trinidad is the harder hitter. However, he couldnt ko a SHOT pernell, a man that is only half his size.

All fair but I wasn't comparing Duran's power to Trinidad's. This is a fantasy fight at 135lb, right? And I partially took back my claim that Duran would win by KO. To knock him out he'd have to dominate him, not catch him with a single shot.

[titoi]

Trinidad has ko'd and viciously beat up guys like mayorga, vargas and joppy. Name 1 fighter from the higher weights that duran ko'd, who is as good as these guys when it comes to toughness.Trinidad is the harder hitter. However, he couldnt ko a SHOT pernell, a man that is only half his size.

A shot, bloated and geriatric Duran kicked the crap out of the insanely tough Iran Barkley for the middleweight title some 17 years after winning his first title.

Barkley would have eaten Trinidad as an appetizer - let's remember what he did to Hearns - nevermind relative chumps like those mentioned.

[kayjay]

A shot, bloated and geriatric Duran kicked the crap out of the insanely tough Iran Barkley for the middleweight title some 17 years after winning his first title.

Barkley would have eaten Trinidad as an appetizer - let's remember what he did to Hearns - nevermind relative chumps like those mentioned.

Good points. An equally interesting matchup (to Whitaker - - Duran) would be Duran -- Trinidad

[brownpimp88]

A shot, bloated and geriatric Duran kicked the crap out of the insanely tough Iran Barkley for the middleweight title some 17 years after winning his first title.

Barkley would have eaten Trinidad as an appetizer - let's remember what he did to Hearns - nevermind relative chumps like those mentioned.

dude barkely isnt that great ok, dont start overrating him. Last time i checked, he didnt get knocked out by duran, infact duran barelt won the fight.

[Steak]

dont compare Barkley and Whitaker....they were nowhere near the same type of fighter...how Duran did against Barkley at Middleweight is almost irrelevant to how he would do against Whitaker at Welter/Lightweight. styles make fights.

remember Whitaker had dealt with the likes of Julio Cesar Chavez in inside fighting and a style of wearing opponents down, and beat him at it...his defence was incredible. I dont think this fight would even come down to 'toughness'.

it would be a hell of a fight to watch. Duran might be able to roughhouse and outwork Whitaker, but I dont see a prime Whitaker getting finished, not by any means. it would be quite a fight to watch.
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[brownpimp88]

dont compare Barkley and Whitaker....they were nowhere near the same type of fighter...how Duran did against Barkley at Middleweight is almost irrelevant to how he would do against Whitaker at Welter/Lightweight. styles make fights.

remember Whitaker had dealt with the likes of Julio Cesar Chavez in inside fighting and a style of wearing opponents down, and beat him at it...his defence was incredible. I dont think this fight would even come down to 'toughness'.

it would be a hell of a fight to watch. Duran might be able to roughhouse and outwork Whitaker, but I dont see a prime Whitaker getting finished, not by any means. it would be quite a fight to watch.

Whtaker beat julio cesar vasquez at 154, duran beat davey moore. Last time i checked, vasquez is the better fighter. Either way, you are right, the higher weights have nothing to do with this.

Whitaker should be top 3 at lightweight, who didn't he beat at this weight?

ray mancini- washed up fighter
edwin rosario- he lost to ramirez and nazario.
camacho- pernell beat him up in real life fights, thats good enough.
vinny pazienzia- he lost to haugen and roger mayweather.
the wbo champ?- no one cared about that belt.

He was forced by the media to go up in wieght and fight mcgirt(the linear welterweight champ) and chavez, the #1 pound for pound star.

Whitaker could have followed the route of canzonori and carlos ortiz, which is to stay at 140 and 135, but no whitaker decided to take risks like fighting the #1 pound for pound guy, the linear welterweight champ, a 154er that terry norris avoided and a prime oscar de la hoya.

If whitaker fought at 140 and stayed thier from 1992-1997, you would hear people ***** and say why didnt he fight at 147 or 154. Well why didnt ortiz, canzonori, benny leonard or the others move up, like men.

[titoi]

dude barkely isnt that great ok, dont start overrating him. Last time i checked, he didnt get knocked out by duran, infact duran barelt won the fight.

I knew he didn't knock out Barkley, but I watched the fight at the time and remember Duran kicking some butt. Just looked it up and saw that it was a split decision (and was foty), so maybe my recollection isn't too good - I need to check it out again. Still, you asked what quality big guy he beat and Barkley was pretty rockin at the time. I think pretty much everyone in the world expected the spent Duran to get beaten to death by the guy after the murderous knockout he put on Hearns.

In any case, I agree with blackirish that how Whitaker and Duran did against other big foes doesn't mean too much about how they'd match up at lightweight.