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Pre-1960 and Post-1960 boxers

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    #31
    Carnera is not as clumsy as generally portrayed--at least with his feet. Upstairs he is riddled with amateurish ineptitude. A la Vlad and others whom proper technique befuddles, he holds his arms straight out as a primary defense when attacked; he brings his left jab straight back to his hip without fail, but at least has a jab; he is strictly an arm puncher with pitty-pat power. It is as if his boxing education only got so far, then was halted. Whoever trained him did not use the methods advised by Dempsey, or Primo would have learned to power punch from the outset along with his basic footwork. Even Primo's footwork deteriorates when he goes on the attack. Often, he seems to take bad steps once he starts punching. The uppercut which supposedly KO'd Sharkey is as close to a proven fix as it comes in boxing, in Wikipegia lacking only a citation for Sharkey's confession. Primo, it seems, was the mob's champion. From that fact alone probably derives some of the scorn carried over to his reputation as a mere circus fraud.

    No denying that Primo's is the body of an athlete who must have put in some work back at the carnival. Genes and pasta usually only go so far. Besides the body, he had but the chin of a boxing superstar, which his style must have been created to demonstrate.

    I still say Willard, who has more boxing fundamentals under control and a more balanced style, easily outpoints Primo over fifteen rounds.

    My invigorated appreciation for the Ambling Alp now has him in a real battle with Tommy Burns in the mythical matchups department.

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      #32
      All i have to say is i would literally feel safe betting my house against Povetkin over Carnera.

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        #33
        Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
        here goes:

        Carnera is easily more light-footed than today's behemoths Lewis, Wlad, Vitali & Briggs. Carnera is more mobile and with better boxing ability...

        Legendary trainer Lou Duva said, "Lennox is another Carnera"..

        Wlad & Vitali although both very successful, they are like men in slow-motion compared to Carnera.i would think the "Computer Punch Stats" from the above fight would be vastly superior to any fight Lewis, Wlad or Vitali ever fought.
        what a ****ing idiot.

        You would be laughed out of any half decent gym in the world if you said that Carnera could box better than Lewis, Vitali and Wlad.

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          #34
          I would like to hope that Carnera isn't the measurement by which this is argued.

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            #35
            Carnera had a lot of courage and heart, but he was basically a big stiff, a bum. Arguably the worst linear HW champion in history. The man had almost no boxing skill. He was literally a circus clown freak show in Italy before becoming a 'professional fighter'.

            When he was discovered by American managers, they saw profit in him for much the same reasons -- they could sell him as the freak show he was. The KO 'wins' he accumulated early in his career were mostly fixed bouts against various tomato cans, all while Carnera was robbed of most of his earnings by the mobsters who managed him.

            By the time he fought Max Bear in 1934, he was already a beaten man. Jack Sharkey had already beat him up terribly the previous year. Carnera was literally forced into the Bear fight and he was in desperate need of another pay day. The Bear fight turned out to be a horror show and Carnera got slaughtered, as he did multiple times more during the following few years before vanishing into obscurity.

            His 'greatness' is based on nothing more than nostalgic mythology.

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              #36
              Originally posted by Last Round Baby View Post
              what a ****ing idiot.

              You would be laughed out of any half decent gym in the world if you said that Carnera could box better than Lewis, Vitali and Wlad.
              Yes, that's the difference between me and a half decent gym...

              talking boxing with me is similar to talking football with Jose Mourinho..

              It's not so much what i say, as what the video show's.. "the camera never lies"...

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by -Weltschmerz- View Post
                Carnera had a lot of courage and heart, but he was basically a big stiff, a bum. Arguably the worst linear HW champion in history. The man had almost no boxing skill. He was literally a circus clown freak show in Italy before becoming a 'professional fighter'.

                When he was discovered by American managers, they saw profit in him for much the same reasons -- they could sell him as the freak show he was. The KO 'wins' he accumulated early in his career were mostly fixed bouts against various tomato cans, all while Carnera was robbed of most of his earnings by the mobsters who managed him.

                By the time he fought Max Bear in 1934, he was already a beaten man. Jack Sharkey had already beat him up terribly the previous year. Carnera was literally forced into the Bear fight and he was in desperate need of another pay day. The Bear fight turned out to be a horror show and Carnera got slaughtered, as he did multiple times more during the following few years before vanishing into obscurity.

                His 'greatness' is based on nothing more than nostalgic mythology.
                We are here in a "Boxing History Section" we all know and agree with what you say above about Primo Carnera.. No one is denying the guy's history or making any claims that he is an ATG... What the subject is about is pre-1960 and post-1960 fighters...

                Primo Carnera has came up as it is clear from many of his video's on YouTube that he is the equal or better than the Behemoths of Post-1960 Wlad, Lennox, Vitali & Briggs..You obviously feel the post-1960 behemoths to be better. Whereas me i see the pre-1960 behemoths to be better.

                Carnera & Willard were both beaten by universally recognized Top 5 ATG Heavyweights: Joe Louis & Jack Dempsey...

                Lewis, Wlad & Vitali were all KOd by fighters who would not be ranked in the ATG Top 50... Lewis (twice KOd) Wlad (Thrice KOd)..

                1/. Would Joe Louis & Jack Dempsey KO Lewis, Wlad & Vitali ?
                2/. Would Carnera & Willard be KOd by McCall, Rahman, Puritty, Brewster, Byrd or Sanders?....

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by The Old LefHook View Post
                  Carnera is not as clumsy as generally portrayed--at least with his feet. Upstairs he is riddled with amateurish ineptitude. A la Vlad and others whom proper technique befuddles, he holds his arms straight out as a primary defense when attacked; he brings his left jab straight back to his hip without fail, but at least has a jab; he is strictly an arm puncher with pitty-pat power. It is as if his boxing education only got so far, then was halted. Whoever trained him did not use the methods advised by Dempsey, or Primo would have learned to power punch from the outset along with his basic footwork. Even Primo's footwork deteriorates when he goes on the attack. Often, he seems to take bad steps once he starts punching. The uppercut which supposedly KO'd Sharkey is as close to a proven fix as it comes in boxing, in Wikipegia lacking only a citation for Sharkey's confession. Primo, it seems, was the mob's champion. From that fact alone probably derives some of the scorn carried over to his reputation as a mere circus fraud.

                  No denying that Primo's is the body of an athlete who must have put in some work back at the carnival. Genes and pasta usually only go so far. Besides the body, he had but the chin of a boxing superstar, which his style must have been created to demonstrate.

                  I still say Willard, who has more boxing fundamentals under control and a more balanced style, easily outpoints Primo over fifteen rounds.

                  My invigorated appreciation for the Ambling Alp now has him in a real battle with Tommy Burns in the mythical matchups department.
                  Well said well said Lefty

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
                    We are here in a "Boxing History Section" we all know and agree with what you say above about Primo Carnera.. No one is denying the guy's history or making any claims that he is an ATG... What the subject is about is pre-1960 and post-1960 fighters...

                    Primo Carnera has came up as it is clear from many of his video's on YouTube that he is the equal or better than the Behemoths of Post-1960 Wlad, Lennox, Vitali & Briggs..You obviously feel the post-1960 behemoths to be better. Whereas me i see the pre-1960 behemoths to be better.

                    Carnera & Willard were both beaten by universally recognized Top 5 ATG Heavyweights: Joe Louis & Jack Dempsey...

                    Lewis, Wlad & Vitali were all KOd by fighters who would not be ranked in the ATG Top 50... Lewis (twice KOd) Wlad (Thrice KOd)..

                    1/. Would Joe Louis & Jack Dempsey KO Lewis, Wlad & Vitali ?
                    2/. Would Carnera & Willard be KOd by McCall, Rahman, Puritty, Brewster, Byrd or Sanders?....
                    Thats a good point again Sonny.


                    Sometimes everything has to be black and white ...Canera is the best or the worse and no inbetween, thats incorrect logic. The fact of the matter is that Canera shows some skills on tape. yes he defends with the frankenstein straight arm lunge, bit so does Vlad, except that Canera usually got aggressive after he got tagged.

                    My point isn't even to say Canera was Better than Vlad...Vlad punches a lot better, but Canera moves better, has a much better chin and has more punches, can fight inside (which vlad can't do).

                    I will also say this: how many present heavyweights get up from that shot from bauer? That was a perfectly placed punch, right on the tip of the mandible...makes the head go snap and the brain bounce around.

                    I don't think Canera is a great fighter, but he had skills and is dismissed easily. I don't know if Povatkin wins... Can he keep Canera outside? cause no Russian'Euro trained modern heavy I know can fight inside worth a *****e

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
                      We are here in a "Boxing History Section" we all know and agree with what you say above about Primo Carnera.. No one is denying the guy's history or making any claims that he is an ATG... What the subject is about is pre-1960 and post-1960 fighters...

                      Primo Carnera has came up as it is clear from many of his video's on YouTube that he is the equal or better than the Behemoths of Post-1960 Wlad, Lennox, Vitali & Briggs..You obviously feel the post-1960 behemoths to be better. Whereas me i see the pre-1960 behemoths to be better.

                      Carnera & Willard were both beaten by universally recognized Top 5 ATG Heavyweights: Joe Louis & Jack Dempsey...

                      Lewis, Wlad & Vitali were all KOd by fighters who would not be ranked in the ATG Top 50... Lewis (twice KOd) Wlad (Thrice KOd)..

                      1/. Would Joe Louis & Jack Dempsey KO Lewis, Wlad & Vitali ?
                      2/. Would Carnera & Willard be KOd by McCall, Rahman, Puritty, Brewster, Byrd or Sanders?....
                      Carnera lost more than a dozen times and was knocked out a handful of times too. Rating him above Lewis and the Klitschko's just doesn't make sense in any way. Not when you look at resume's, not h2h either.

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