Wille Pep and Sandy Saddler

[joeandthebums]

I regularly see Pep placed above Saddler when lists; either pound-for-pound or Featherweight lists of discussed.

My question is a simple one; why?

[BattlingNelson]

Looking forward to this thread. It's a question I have wondered about myself from time to time, but I haven't really investigated their respective records in depth at all.

[billeau2]

I regularly see Pep placed above Saddler when lists; either pound-for-pound or Featherweight lists of discussed.

My question is a simple one; why?

Good to see you back J&tB! I don't know. Two things jump out at me though: Pep fought more and Saddler was more of a bruiser.... At any rate Pep was considered a boxer with skills while Saddler a murderous puncher by and large. Saddler was strictly in the Armstrong mode; punch punch and then punch some more while pep was characterized by a great level of skill.

So you have a guy who fought more fights, has consumate skills that were the envy of any fighter versus a guy who didn't look as good in the ring and got by on attrition.

An apt analogy might be to question why Armstrong wasn't considered as good as Ray Robinson. Of course the thing with your question is that these guys fought and showed that they were each other's equal....would be interested to hear what Ray has to say about this because not only is he Ray but these two guys are in his neck of the woods!

[Ray Corso]

Their match up was in favor of Sadler, their over all talent, longevity and skills favored Pep. Just because a great fighter has an opponent that does well against them doesn't mean his character is deminished.
Current fans see a zero on Mayweather and Calzaghe and a few others records and think that the zero quantifies them as great. Sorry thats not true, we all know that Mayweather is NOT an ATG at 147, and Calzaghe has a weak opponents list as far as being an ATG!

Sandler is considered one of the strongest if not THE strongest Feather of all time and he loved to fight! At 5'8 1/2" with a 71 reach he towered over 5'5" Pep. He had his troubles with Pep too!
Sandy was stopped ONCE in over 160 bouts! He is a top ten all time puncher, a top five all time Feather and theres nothing that deminishes Pep's standings when considering their history.

Kenny Norton gave Ali all he could handle and Norton isn't considered a great heavy. Sadler IS considered a great Feather and some of that praise comes from his history with the great Pep!
Pep is from Middletown Ct. and when he was a steward for the boxing commisions office in Hartford I had a chance to shoot the crap with him at Franks Rest. right across from the Hatford CC after the boxing shows. He was a great guy to listen to and he knew the game as well as anyone I've ever talked with. My cousin actually fought him, Pep was asked to carry him into the late rounds and just win a decs. My cousin got a little ****y and tried to open up more on Pep. Pep knocked him out the next round. People think that Pep wasn't a good puncher and used movement because he couldn't mix it up. Thats not true at all he had ALL the punches and if he felt his opponent was ready to get stopped he's step it up.
Pep went 62-0 before he got beat Sammy Agnott a great competitor well know in boxing. So much for being 47-0 in 4 or 5 different weight classes and being under controll of who you fight.
Pep was one of a kind "the Will of the Wisp" hit and not get hit! Willie Pep.

Ray.

[Humean]

I did a post once trying to grade in order the top 20 wins from both fighters careers: //krikya360.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=622938

I think now that it is foolish to judge individual fights like that though.

Some possible reasons for why Pep is ranked higher than Saddler:

Boxing reasons
1) Outside of their fights between each other Pep's record is better
2) Pep was certainly the more skilful fighter
3) Pep's style was easy on the eye whereas Saddler is one of the ugliest fighters in history
4) Saddler was a dirty fighter

Non-Boxing reasons
1) Pep was white (maybe not the best kind of white though)
2) Pep was a gregarious character, one of the boys, who would hang out with journalists and give them stories whereas I think Saddler was a bit of a surly bastard who probably wouldn't have endeared himself to the various writers.

Also many have accepted the story that Pep was never quite the same after the plane crash, and this is used to diminish Saddler's wins against Pep.

[joeandthebums]

I can appreciate the view that Pep had the style and skills, plus title reign, but does all that not gloss over the fact that Saddler was the better man when the two met in the ring 3 out of 4 times.

It seems to me that Pep in some regards gets a pass on Saddler.

[Humean]

I can appreciate the view that Pep had the style and skills, plus title reign, but does all that not gloss over the fact that Saddler was the better man when the two met in the ring 3 out of 4 times.

It seems to me that Pep in some regards gets a pass on Saddler.

I agree, especially the manner of the victories, he really battered Pep pretty badly even in the fight that Pep won.

[IronDanHamza]

Styles make fights so I wouldn't say just because Saddler beat Pep 3 times out of 4 that necessarily makes him better.

But in all honesty I wouldnt argue with someone ranking Saddler ahead.

People say Pep has a better resume but does he? It's arguable IMO.

[Scott9945]

I regularly see Pep placed above Saddler when lists; either pound-for-pound or Featherweight lists of discussed.

My question is a simple one; why?

Just speculating, but it might have to do with it being after the plane crash that Pep was in. I've heard people say that he was never quite the same again.

[The Old LefHook]

Many people factor in Pep's plane crash. There is no other way to rank him over Sandy. Sandy is firmly atop the all time feather list in who beats who. Only when other criteria are brought to bear on the question does Willie emerge victorious. That has to do with every reason so far enumerated by my friends.