Sonny Liston would dominate if he fought today!

[Weltschmerz]

Yeah, these heavies today are so well trained that most of them can't even last a 12 round distance, some not even 10, when those guys could usually go 15.

Jack Johnson went 26 rounds with Jess Willard as an overweight drinker.

[MotorCityJaguar]

Liston easily defeat all the today heavyweights, kills Wladimir


Posted from krikya360.com App for Android

[Weltschmerz]

Liston easily defeat all the today heavyweights, kills Wladimir


Posted from krikya360.com App for Android

I don't see him getting close to Vladimir. It is a good match up though, and a dangerous fight for Vlad. Even though Liston actually has a slight reach advantage, he would give away too much height and weight.

Now I am sitting here wishing Liston was fighting today...

[Elroy1]

Interested in seeing this evidence? I mostly see evidence of too many stops at McDonalds in todays heavies.

Ok, I'll spare you statistics (we can go there later if you want) and look at it another way.

Ray if your viewing I want you also to TRY and answer to this very powerful post...

If, as you say Laced Up, and Ray said quote.. That most all current HW's train lazy and have regressed in skills compared to guys like Liston and Ali were, then it should be easy to answer this simple question...

Surely, some humble young man or 2 would have noticed, or their trainer will have noticed (perhaps a very knowledgable one like RAY! ) And thought to EXPLOIT such deficiency and produce a single contender in the haystack of sub mediocrity and totally expose all these lazy unskilled bums that are around these days.

Except we don't see this do we.

Never since Liston have we seen a 200-220lb fighter as slow or as uncoordinated as Liston ever become a serious factor in the division.

Never since Ali have we seen such a featherfisted and technically flawed 215lb runner & hugger like Ali ever become a serious factor in the division.

Basically, if such boxer were so effective, WHERE ARE THEY? there styles are scrappy and really easy to copy. So surely they would be present somewhere right?

Well I will tell you where it is NOT first. It is not in the top 10 of HW boxing by any sanctioning body and hasn't been for a very long time. Look at them!

And I'll give you a hint where you might see them shining brightly today.. It's called AMATEUR boxing now.

Please enlighten me to your (serious) reasons why nobody has been as smart as Ray claims to be able to train someone in the forgotten art of boxing to single handedly crack the code.

Please enlighten me to your (serious) reasons why nobody has been apt enough to spot the talentlessness of todays fighters, enlist the help of a guy like Ray and beat up these lazy ass limited HW's?

This should be good

Right there is all the evidence anyone who reflects seriously needs. If someone like Liston was effective today.. They'd be up there! The sport has evolved and moved on. I think history should be revered, the roots of the sport are important.

But RELIVING history in spite of the present is damaging to the sport. Killing it in fact!

All I am seeing is young fighters like OneRound preaching how today's guys are crap and would have got flogged, but I don't see anybody like him exploiting the situation.

And trainers like Ray promoting the same yet I don't see them producing a fighter who can topple these crap house HW's?

See where I'm coming from?

[Elroy1]

A very valid question is "Could Liston beat Puritty"

Or

"Could Liston beat Chisora"

On both counts I would argue know for what SHOULD be OBVIOUS reasons.

But for some reason are not.

Instead.. "Liston beats everyone in the division.. Except MAYBE Wlad?"

Come off it!

[Scott9945]

A very valid question is "Could Liston beat Puritty"

Or

"Could Liston beat Chisora"

On both counts I would argue know for what SHOULD be OBVIOUS reasons.

But for some reason are not.

Instead.. "Liston beats everyone in the division.. Except MAYBE Wlad?"

Come off it!

You would argue "know", Leroy?

Neither of those stooges would even win a round against Sonny Liston. But keep trolling until you are banned. Again.

[bklynboy]

You would argue "know", Leroy?

Neither of those stooges would even win a round against Sonny Liston. But keep trolling until you are banned. Again.

Sadly, I don't think he's trolling. I think he believes what he says.

[jas]

[ShoulderRoll]

Never since Liston have we seen a 200-220lb fighter as slow or as uncoordinated as Liston ever become a serious factor in the division.

Never since Ali have we seen such a featherfisted and technically flawed 215lb runner & hugger like Ali ever become a serious factor in the division.

This kind of blatant trolling shouldn't be allowed in the history section. This isn't NSB.

[billeau2]

A very valid question is "Could Liston beat Puritty"

Or

"Could Liston beat Chisora"

On both counts I would argue know for what SHOULD be OBVIOUS reasons.

But for some reason are not.

Instead.. "Liston beats everyone in the division.. Except MAYBE Wlad?"

Come off it!

Some skills take time and effort to develop. Most trainers don't have subtlety when it comes to form, thats why good trainers are in such demand. Guys who come up without being scrutinized develop skill but they also develop bad habits. Most professional fighters today want to be lauded more than taught skills. For example, throwing punches from a short delivery with no telegraph. Tyson was drilled on this and Tyson studied the master at this. So Tyson went through the division like a hot knife through butter. As soon as Tyson was not treated as a student of the game, his game suffered tremendously.

In Liston's time there was the equivalent of a farm system. Guys fought and were developed.....True story my dad boxed in the Marine Corps and remembers recieving very specific instructions about where to step, what punches to throw when, etc. Thats how boxing was studied. Many times today we hear "beat his azzzz!" The point is that guys were not allowed by their team to go into a ring, during a professional fight, with bad habits. Furthermore their skills were emphasized and developed. Fighters venerated their trainers and listened to them.

As much as I liked stewart, he basically taught Vlad to grab. Compare that to how guys like Blackburn and Cus worked with their fighters. Compare this to how emmanuel, before becoming an HBO shill, worked at the Kronk gym. Why did Tommy develop such lethal skills? why was it hard to get at his chin?

a Great analogy would be if baseball, instead of having a farm system, you just had multiple leagues, hundreds of em, sandlot teams turned professional. Instead of developing skills in double and triple A, guys, at the first sign of talent were signed to play professional ball....If this happened I am quite sure idiots would say "oh ball players today are so much better athletes, they are so much stronger and throw harder, yada yada yada....

The truth would in fact be that the talent would never be developed properly, which is precisely what you see today. So you would have pitchers who would say "I specialize in fastballs, I can;t throw other stuff, and hitters who would say, I never learned to bunt and hit to the opposite field, I hit balls to go out of the park. Can you imagine how baseball would be? Heres a clue: In all competitions, with the exception of major league baseball, which recruits internationally, teams from countries that emphasize technique, how to play the game with skills and proper fundamentals, as opposed to looking for an all star to lead the team....wipe up. No American team has come close to winning any championships in the sandlot leagues...and I actually played sandlot for a while...the reason is, even in baseball! the basics and fundamentals are not coached at the level they are in Asia and in the Hispanic leagues.

We are spoiled in this country. Basically the analogy with baseball is equivalent to FIGHTERS SAYING "I DONT FIGHT INSIDE, I DON'T NEED COMBOS I JUST USE A ONE PUNCH KO" And the same idiots proclaim how good the modern fighters are who have no skills to speak of when compared to a fighter like Liston who could fight from any range, had great lateral head movement, a whip like pole jab, and would never hesitate to finish an opponent off immediately when presented with the opportunity.