Is Muhammad Ali the #1 Heavyweight of all time?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

If they fought and beat a fighter in or close to their prime I don’t consider it as H2H. That’s just part of their resume.

I see H2H as how a fighter would fare in potential match-ups against fighters they never met. For example, I see Jung-Koo Chang as being a H2H nightmare. It’s the same thing with Fighting Harada.

Anyway, in my opinion should rating fighters on their H2H-ability just be for fun and not have too much stock into it.

For example, let's say you are putting together an all-time list. If two fighters achievements and resume is incredibly evenly matched - the fighter that ends up higher is usually the one who you prefer between the two.

That's usually how it ends up anyway, and it's perfectly fine.

Ok, the only reason it was brought up was because i rate burley higher than moore since H2H burley beat him... Moore obviously has just as good as resume as burley, and burley is at a huge disadvantage at resume department much like sam langford since they were not given many opportunities. Both skill sets were fantastic, but in this debate, with moore having a clear loss to Burley, then i think it does matter when comparing the 2 fighters.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Ok, the only reason it was brought up was because i rate burley higher than moore since H2H burley beat him... Moore obviously has just as good as resume as burley, and burley is at a huge disadvantage at resume department much like sam langford since they were not given many opportunities. Both skill sets were fantastic, but in this debate, with moore having a clear loss to Burley, then i think it does matter when comparing the 2 fighters.

Wrong thread, thought i was on the Moore thread....

[E-Thug]

What really should give people pause for reflection is that good as Ali was....his best years were stolen from him. Its kind of like people used to talk about Satchel Page, who was pitching competitively at well past 40 years of age... But who knows how good he would have been pitching in the majors in his prime years?

I've often wondered this myself. Technically, Ali's prime was wasted away in prison and we only ever saw a small glimpse of it prior to him being sentenced. Imagine if he fought Frazier in that time period and everyone else then...

On topic, I completely and wholeheartedly believe Ali is the greatest HW to have ever lived.

[StarshipTrooper]

I've often wondered this myself. Technically, Ali's prime was wasted away in prison and we only ever saw a small glimpse of it prior to him being sentenced. Imagine if he fought Frazier in that time period and everyone else then...

On topic, I completely and wholeheartedly believe Ali is the greatest HW to have ever lived.

Ali didn't go to prison. He was banned from boxing but he never landed in the sneezer sorry.

[BKM-2010]

Ali didn't go to prison. He was banned from boxing but he never landed in the sneezer sorry.

That is correct.

Also I would appriciate it if someone could correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard that Ali trained during those years but he did not spar which was the reason he became much more rusty and lost that 'feel' for his earlier fighting style.

[Scott9945]

That is correct.

Also I would appriciate it if someone could correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard that Ali trained during those years but he did not spar which was the reason he became much more rusty and lost that 'feel' for his earlier fighting style.

I don't think he trained regularly. I remember the press conference for the Ali-Marciano "computer fight" and Ali was really fat. The long retired Marciano was in much better shape.

[StarshipTrooper]

That is correct.

Also I would appriciate it if someone could correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard that Ali trained during those years but he did not spar which was the reason he became much more rusty and lost that 'feel' for his earlier fighting style.

I don't think he trained regularly. I remember the press conference for the Ali-Marciano "computer fight" and Ali was really fat. The long retired Marciano was in much better shape.

Yeah, he stopped doing roadwork and put on a lot of weight in those three years. That he managed to get back into enough shape to fight effectively after that was pretty amazing. He never did get his legs back fully and he had lost some of his reflexes.

[sleazyfellow]

In a fantasy boxing match up it is very hard to see ali losing to any other heavyweight, he's just too fast with his feet and hands. I still gotta go with louis on this...but ali is a close second and people who choose him being number 1 I understand. I guess I just enjoy the knockout more....

[greeh]

In a fantasy boxing match up it is very hard to see ali losing to any other heavyweight, he's just too fast with his feet and hands. I still gotta go with louis on this...but ali is a close second and people who choose him being number 1 I understand. I guess I just enjoy the knockout more....

I’m a big fan of Joe - he’s the only heavyweight I’m a fan of to be honest - and I do prefer him as a fighter over Ali. He might be both the best all-round puncher in history as well as the most dominant champion.

Those are no mean feats.

But since this is about greatness, and resume plays the most important role - Ali should be #1.

I could have understood if you had chosen Louis if their resumes were neck and neck, but since Ali sits on the best resume in the division’s history, and it's better than Joe’s - not just a little, but with a fair margin - the preference-card is not an valid option anymore.

We can scream, dispute, and deny it as much as we possibly can and want - but it doesn't change the fact that the proof is right in front of us, and I simply don’t think it’s reasonable to hand over the crown to anyone else than Muhammad.

Sorry Joe?

[MrRolltide91]

I say ali...