Ali's mean side

[Scott9945]

I disagree. Patterson fought very well that night in 1972. Ali didn't carry him at all. His performances against Quarry, Ellis and Bonavena indicate that even into his twilight he was still very much world class and more than capable of taking 70s Ali a good few rounds without being carried.

I thought that when I saw it live, but after seeing several replays years later it seems obvious that Ali was fighting at half speed early. His defensive skills were sharp enough then to make sure that Patterson didn't land anything too flush. When Ali stepped on the gas later Floyd's eye shut and it was all over. To remove any doubt (for me at least) Ali grabbed the mic after the fight and made a warm tribute to Floyd for his effort. I'm pretty sure that's the only time he ever did that. I'm sticking with my view that Ali carried him to allow Floyd a dignified finish to his career because he felt a bit guilty about the 1965 humiliation.

[soul_survivor]

I've never understood people giving Ali crap about his performances against Terrel and Patterson. Both men were boxers, if they didn't want to be in the ring, they should have quit. What was Ali supposed to do, give them a cup of tea, some biscuits and have a tea? To add to the fact that Ali was boxing and not part of the ballet, both men refused to call him by his real name, if I converted to another religion and threw away my slave name, which I had adopted from a man who probably ****d my great grandmother, I wouldn't want someone of my own race, who has experienced similar troubles, to insult me for something I care so deeply about.

What did he actually do wrong? I've never understood, I repeat, he punished both men in the ring within the boundaries of the sport of boxing. If you guys don't like it, watch WWE or some ****.

[rightsideup]

I've never understood people giving Ali crap about his performances against Terrel and Patterson. Both men were boxers, if they didn't want to be in the ring, they should have quit. What was Ali supposed to do, give them a cup of tea, some biscuits and have a tea? To add to the fact that Ali was boxing and not part of the ballet, both men refused to call him by his real name, if I converted to another religion and threw away my slave name, which I had adopted from a man who probably ****d my great grandmother, I wouldn't want someone of my own race, who has experienced similar troubles, to insult me for something I care so deeply about.

What did he actually do wrong? I've never understood, I repeat, he punished both men in the ring within the boundaries of the sport of boxing. If you guys don't like it, watch WWE or some ****.

My Question and the observations from people at the time of the fights could he have scored knockouts? What do you think?

[GeneralZod]

My Question and the observations from people at the time of the fights could he have scored knockouts? What do you think?

It's been stated before Ali could've dropped Terrell anytime he wanted, but he wanted to torture him until he called him Muhammad. Floyd i'm not sure on.

[Sugarj]

I thought that when I saw it live, but after seeing several replays years later it seems obvious that Ali was fighting at half speed early. His defensive skills were sharp enough then to make sure that Patterson didn't land anything too flush. When Ali stepped on the gas later Floyd's eye shut and it was all over. To remove any doubt (for me at least) Ali grabbed the mic after the fight and made a warm tribute to Floyd for his effort. I'm pretty sure that's the only time he ever did that. I'm sticking with my view that Ali carried him to allow Floyd a dignified finish to his career because he felt a bit guilty about the 1965 humiliation.

Fair play, we can all have our opinions. But around that time Ali did seem to be less than hurried in his performances. The Quarry, Mac & Bob Foster, Lewis fights around that time, leading up to and including the first Norton fight showed an Ali not in anyway dissimilar to the guy who turned up for Patterson 2.

I'd agree that Ali may have felt guilty about his performance in 1965. But not enough to carry Floyd. Killer instinct in the early rounds was just not something that 1972 Ali was showing; he seemed to like moving around and working out an opponent. Based on Ali's fairly recent performances against Ellis and Quarry, I'd have thought a late round stoppage win would have been about right against Patterson.

It wasn't long ago that I watched the 72 Patterson fight. Floyd certainly looked fast to me and to my eyes caught Ali by surprise and flush several times. Ali was too vain about his features to allow even a post prime Patterson free reign to hit him in the face.

Ali did quite like Floyd though. From memory, In the Durham biography a meeting with Ali and Patterson is detailed after the 1965 fight; they did seem to get on quite well. Its nice that Ali paid Patterson a tribute.

[Sugarj]

It's been stated before Ali could've dropped Terrell anytime he wanted, but he wanted to torture him until he called him Muhammad. Floyd i'm not sure on.

There were allegations that Ali repeatedly thumbed Terrell and even managed to rub Ernie's damaged eye on the top rope.

Its hard to truly tell from the footage. I've only seen the fight in full in grainy black & white and highlights in colour. But Terrell's eye damage was as bad as anyone suffered against Ali including Frazier 3.

[BearMusics]

Ali was a chatter box.

[Panamaniac]

Everybody has a dark (mean, if you will) side and Ali is no exception. Exibitted inside the ring with his 'corporal punishment' of Terrell, Patterson, and his general taunting, name-calling (Bear, rabbit, gorilla, washerwoman, etc.) of opponents before and during fights. To put his "meanness" in perspective, with the exception of the Terrell/Patterson boxing lessons, Ali was generally good-natured and playful with his pre-fight psychological warfare.

[StarshipTrooper]

I've never understood people giving Ali crap about his performances against Terrel and Patterson. Both men were boxers, if they didn't want to be in the ring, they should have quit. What was Ali supposed to do, give them a cup of tea, some biscuits and have a tea? To add to the fact that Ali was boxing and not part of the ballet, both men refused to call him by his real name, if I converted to another religion and threw away my slave name, which I had adopted from a man who probably ****d my great grandmother, I wouldn't want someone of my own race, who has experienced similar troubles, to insult me for something I care so deeply about.

What did he actually do wrong? I've never understood, I repeat, he punished both men in the ring within the boundaries of the sport of boxing. If you guys don't like it, watch WWE or some ****.

I'd point out that Tyson got flack for carrying Tyrell Biggs a few rounds so he could punish him. It's not "wrong" per se but it's generally regarded as beyond the pale of good sportsmanship: Similar to running up the score on an overmatched team. While there's nothing technically wrong or against the rules about running up the score, it's usually seen as poor sportsmanship.

[Ben Bolt]

Like the rest of us, Ali had good sides, and not so good sides.

A story told as an example of his good side: in his prime, beggars frequently visited Ali’s camp for money support. One guy said his mother had just died, and he couldn’t afford paying for her funeral, so Ali gave him money.
Some year later, the same guy turned up and said his mother had just died, and he couldn’t afford paying for her funeral. Ali didn’t want to humiliate the guy by asking how his mother could have died twice, so instead of asking questions, he gave him money.

The darker side of Ali can been seen in this 90 min. vid which I re-post here for you who still haven’t watched it (shame on you!). I watched Alis’ Manila fight vs Frazier at a movie a couple of days after it had occurred, but the greatness of this encounter I didn’t realize until several years later, i.e. until I watched this documentary.