no mas your thoughts

[rightsideup]

I have not seen this topic being addressed on this forum for awhile. My thoughts are this was a very dark day for the sport, Duran and the people around Duran. Both Duran and Fredie Brown went into lasting depressions. Ray Arcel was stunned and tormented by the ending of the fight but from what I have read Durans management knew he was not in shape either physically or mentally to take the fight. Ray Leonard openly admits to striving to get duran back into the ring with duran not at his best.

Pls comment on the following points
1. Should durans management delayed the fight
2. What do you think of Ray leonards tactics
3. Why has duran been forgiven and ranked so highly on p4p atg lists

[Ray Corso]

I'm not a Leonard fan and I've known him since he was 16 yrs old. I thought his best fight was his loss to Duran. He fought hard and you could see him learning as the fight moved on.

Duran is to blame and ONLY Duran. He trained to make weight (210lbs down to 155 then sweat boxed and chewed and spit to get to welter. He was done before it began!!! Theres NO excuss it was on him totally. His head had grown after defeating Leonard in a great fight and all of a sudden the respect for Mr. Arcell & Mr. Brown wasn't important!

Great fighters will almost always have a great corner! Someone to focus the fighter on two basic needs per round. Another to recognize whats going on phsically with the fighter (cuts, abrasions, tension, cramps etc)

I feel Duran went empty and when that happens its time to fold it! Some people who have never fought call it quitting and in a way it is but I think of a quitter as someone who is ready and stops. I'm not making an excuss but people whoi have never been drained out have no idea what I'm talking about. A good example is what happened to Dawson vs Ward. Chad tried but when theres no fuel for the fire you can't light it even if your trying to.
None competitors won't get this at all so go out and run until your lungs are burning and accept no fluids, rest for a few hours and go do the same distances that drained you. You won't last 20% of the time you did the first time. Dehydration + muscle fatique = failure!!!! Its not an excuss its the end result of failure to prepare!

Only the greats from the 30s thru the 50s who fought 125+ fights trained to maintain conditioning because they didn't need to train for fights they fought every 10 to 20 DAYS!! Sugarman was NEVER out of shape he was a "full time fighter"!

Ray Corso

[Panamaniac]

My thoughts on "No Mas" can be summed-up in two simple words: NO MAS!

[Panamaniac]

Pls comment on the following points
1. Should durans management delayed the fight
2. What do you think of Ray leonards tactics
3. Why has duran been forgiven and ranked so highly on p4p atg lists

1. Yes.
2. Brilliant. Failed to beat Duran toe-to-toe, so he finessed him!
3. Because vs Leonard II is merely a speck on an otherwise illustrious prime time career. Would one think any less of supermodel Cindy Crawford's beauty because of that mole at her lips?

[Ray Corso]

That mole is Ugly!! So was Durans obligation to himself and his team that gave him years of knowledge and experience! Thats why after the first Leonard fight Duran should have backed it in. He made good money latter in his career and actually had a few impressive wins but his losses were devastating and loosing to people like Camacho and Paz twice was ridiculous!
Pat "freakin" Lawler????? No offense to any of those boys but they don't compare to Duran at his best. Duran couldn't pull it off and yet continued for years to be an opponent!!! He trained to make weight never did any real work to win a fight just make weight!
Great lightweight fighter, after that he just picked up the pennies!! Ray

[rightsideup]

That mole is Ugly!! So was Durans obligation to himself and his team that gave him years of knowledge and experience! Thats why after the first Leonard fight Duran should have backed it in. He made good money latter in his career and actually had a few impressive wins but his losses were devastating and loosing to people like Camacho and Paz twice was ridiculous!
Pat "freakin" Lawler????? No offense to any of those boys but they don't compare to Duran at his best. Duran couldn't pull it off and yet continued for years to be an opponent!!! He trained to make weight never did any real work to win a fight just make weight!
Great lightweight fighter, after that he just picked up the pennies!! Ray

Thank you Ray and the gentleman from Panama for your insights. I really value both your opinions. I actually saw the pat Lawler fight and of course was disappointed as this was only two fights from durans incredible performance against Barkley. But Tyson Ruddock, a prime chavez sr and simon brown/blocker were on the card as well. I also shook the hand of the second man to beat leonard
Mr Terry Norris. Money well spent.

[CHEECH]

I believe all of what u said had something to do with it but i remember late in the first fight thinkin if ray woulda fought like this from the start he'd b ahead right now. i remember thinkin how clever duran looked like he was tryin to play it off that sugar ray was able to win late rounds, u know kinda clowning in there and i thought to myself if duran coulda just went on and won the late rounds, he absolutely would have. so im thinkin, duran had a some anxiety about fighting a leonard who would not trade with him and in the second fight when leonard started clowining duran just gave it a shot for a few rounds and then said fk it. from what i heard, that'swhat duran really said in there. he said fk it. then moments later more explanatory he told the ref no mas i fight no more

[CHEECH]

forgot to say, y he's forgive for that fight, cuz he's an amazing fighter with an amazing run, dominant at 135, beats big money ray for 147, shocks the world beating prime young davey moore for 154 belt, then beats the big bad monster barkely at 160. how many do anything like that in the run of a career? only the best

[them_apples]

Even thought Leonard was keeping out of distance, it's not like he did a whole lot either. Duran seemed like he had half the energy in comparison to the first fight.

Duran was one of the best fighters ever p4p when he was in shape. Whenever he showed up in shape he often won, even at weights as high as 160 (in shape for him lol)

[bob_bask]

1. Should durans management delayed the fight
2. What do you think of Ray leonards tactics
3. Why has duran been forgiven and ranked so highly on p4p atg lists

1. No. Duran earned more for one fight ($8 million) than his previous 73 (entire career). Arguments for scheduling perhaps.
2. Personally I despise these clowning antics, disrespectful to their fellow professional and us the fans. (Now seeing it all the time particularly in over-matched prospects.) Did they have an effect? Probably yes.
3. I never viewed it as it has become. A media job. Consider that Willie Pep receives zero debate over manner of two of his Saddler losses.