Duane Bobick thread

[Pastrano]

Exactly. Bobick had the size and the strength and the backing (with Frazier as his promoter) to make it big at heavyweight. When he entered the top 10, Frazier was gone, Quarry was gone, Foreman was retiring, Ali was falling off badly. If Bobick had defeated Ken Norton, he had a clear shot. In 1977 and 1978, Ali was very vulnerable. He looked awful against Evangelista. Shavers hammered him. Spinks (with a 6-0-1 record) beat him. Bobick did have a real shot had he gotten Ali at that time.

The problem was Bobick seemed to regress after turning pro. He didn't take training seriously. If you look at him as an amateur, against the likes of Holmes and Stevenson, he is fit and dangerous. Four years later, against a journeyman like Young Sanford, Bobick looks soft and unsculpted. He has no muscle tone at all. I heard he was a drinker. That probably had a lot to do with it.

Bobick also couldn't slip punches. He never worked on his defense. Norton showed that he was a sucker for an overhand right. I remember before Bobick fought John Tate, ABC did a big profile on how Bobick was finally committed to training and he was fit and strong again. Totally committed. But Tate just started launching overhand rights, and Bobick was stopped in one round again.

Bobick's fall had a lot to do with his lack of commitment as a pro, his failure to work on his defense, his failure to take training seriously. Because he had the raw talent to win. When he and Holmes turned pro, Bobick was miles ahead of Holmes. By the late 70s, Holmes had developed his skills to the point he could go 15 with Norton, and Bobick couldn't last one minute with him. Bobick only has himself to blame.

Its true, Bobick looked more muscular against Stevenson in the olympics than when he turned pro. As I said, he looked quite skinny for a hw. I think also the death of his brother shook him up and made him lose focus somewhat. I'm glad we talked about this, Duane is somewhat overlooked as a subject today.

[Scott9945]

Because Stevenson was both bigger, stronger and at least as talented as Ali, if not more. He could throw great combinations or blow you out with single punches. Ali couldn't do the latter.

Stevenson was an amateur who never went past three rounds. And you're comparing him to Muhammad Ali?

[joseph5620]

Stevenson was an amateur who never went past three rounds. And you're comparing him to Muhammad Ali?

I can't take anything he says seriously. His opinions are worst than SCtrojans. And that's saying something.

[joseph5620]

Exactly. Bobick had the size and the strength and the backing (with Frazier as his promoter) to make it big at heavyweight. When he entered the top 10, Frazier was gone, Quarry was gone, Foreman was retiring, Ali was falling off badly. If Bobick had defeated Ken Norton, he had a clear shot. In 1977 and 1978, Ali was very vulnerable. He looked awful against Evangelista. Shavers hammered him. Spinks (with a 6-0-1 record) beat him. Bobick did have a real shot had he gotten Ali at that time.

The problem was Bobick seemed to regress after turning pro. He didn't take training seriously. If you look at him as an amateur, against the likes of Holmes and Stevenson, he is fit and dangerous. Four years later, against a journeyman like Young Sanford, Bobick looks soft and unsculpted. He has no muscle tone at all. I heard he was a drinker. That probably had a lot to do with it.

Bobick also couldn't slip punches. He never worked on his defense. Norton showed that he was a sucker for an overhand right. I remember before Bobick fought John Tate, ABC did a big profile on how Bobick was finally committed to training and he was fit and strong again. Totally committed. But Tate just started launching overhand rights, and Bobick was stopped in one round again.
Bobick's fall had a lot to do with his lack of commitment as a pro, his failure to work on his defense, his failure to take training seriously. Because he had the raw talent to win. When he and Holmes turned pro, Bobick was miles ahead of Holmes. By the late 70s, Holmes had developed his skills to the point he could go 15 with Norton, and Bobick couldn't last one minute with him. Bobick only has himself to blame.

That's because you can't fix a chin. Either you can take a punch or you can't. If you can't get past that problem you're not going to make it to the highest level when fighters like Tate are blasting you out in a round. It's not like Tate was a huge puncher either. Bobick responded poorly to getting hit. And I think he had that problem in the amateurs as well. When you get laid out for minutes with headgear that's not a good sign for the pro's. Jeremy Williams had the same problem.

[JAB5239]

Because Stevenson was both bigger, stronger and at least as talented as Ali, if not more. He could throw great combinations or blow you out with single punches. Ali couldn't do the latter.

When did he ever show he could do any of these things against a top professsional?

[Pastrano]

When did he ever show he could do any of these things against a top professsional?

Ahem, he beat guys like Biggs, Dokes, Tate and Bobick. Two of them were champions and the other two were top ranked contenders. What other proof do you want? Stevenson destroyed them all. I think youre just envious because Teofilo is Cuban and many experts said he could beat Ali. Even Foreman said he would def be world champion if he turned pro. And so did Cosell.

[joseph5620]

Ahem, he beat guys like Biggs, Dokes, Tate and Bobick. Two of them were champions and the other two were top ranked contenders. What other proof do you want? Stevenson destroyed them all. I think youre just envious because Teofilo is Cuban and many experts said he could beat Ali. Even Foreman said he would def be world champion if he turned pro. And so did Cosell.

Using amateur fights as a measuring stick for greatness in professional boxing speaks volumes about your mentality.


I'm sure if Cuban Heavyweight Jorge Luis Gonzalez never turned pro you would tell us the same thing how he would have beaten Bowe,Lewis, Holyfield, Ali....






Jorge Luis Gonzalez:


González compiled an Amateur Record of 220-13. His highlights include:

Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the 1983 Pan-American Games in Caracas, Venezuela
Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the 1987 Pan-American Games in Indianapolis, United States. Results included:
Defeated Rid**** Bowe (United States) on points
Defeated Lennox Lewis (Canada) on points
Lost to Lennox Lewis at the 1987 North American Championships in Toronto, Canada, by decision.
After an outstanding amateur career in Cuba, where he defeated the likes of Teofilo Stevenson, Tyrell Biggs, and Craig Payne, he defected during a Cuban Team event in Finland, in 1991.




Just another example of how silly your argument is. An amateur career does not prove what a fighter will do in the pro ranks. No matter how much that goes over your head.



And who are these so called " many experts" that said Stevenson could have beaten Ali? Names please.

[Pastrano]

Using amateur fights as a measuring stick for greatness in professional boxing speaks volumes about your mentality.


I'm sure if Cuban Heavyweight Jorge Luis Gonzalez never turned pro you would tell us the same thing how he would have beaten Bowe,Lewis, Holyfield, Ali....






Jorge Luis Gonzalez:


González compiled an Amateur Record of 220-13. His highlights include:

Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the 1983 Pan-American Games in Caracas, Venezuela
Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the 1987 Pan-American Games in Indianapolis, United States. Results included:
Defeated Rid**** Bowe (United States) on points
Defeated Lennox Lewis (Canada) on points
Lost to Lennox Lewis at the 1987 North American Championships in Toronto, Canada, by decision.
After an outstanding amateur career in Cuba, where he defeated the likes of Teofilo Stevenson, Tyrell Biggs, and Craig Payne, he defected during a Cuban Team event in Finland, in 1991.




Just another example of how silly your argument is. An amateur career does not prove what a fighter will do in the pro ranks. No matter how much that goes over your head.



And who are these so called " many experts" that said Stevenson could have beaten Ali? Names please.

You want names from like 40 years ago?? Seriously, are you deranged? Not my fault your precious American boxers aren't as invincible when they fight outside US than inside it, don't let your frustration out on me. What makes YOU think Stevenson wouldn't do as well as a pro? He sure as hell was no gigantic stiff like Gonzalez, that sob. Gonzalez didn't listen to his American trainers anyway, maybe he'd do better if he had listened to them. And the two can't be compared, Gonzalez won only 2 gold medals, Stevenson won 3 olympic and 3 world championship medals! Plus 2 Pan Am ones. Plus Teofilo was certainly past prime when that lumbering idiot beat him.

[joseph5620]

You want names from like 40 years ago?? Seriously, are you deranged? Not my fault your precious American boxers aren't as invincible when they fight outside US than inside it, don't let your frustration out on me. What makes YOU think Stevenson wouldn't do as well as a pro? He sure as hell was no gigantic stiff like Gonzalez, that sob. Gonzalez didn't listen to his American trainers anyway, maybe he'd do better if he had listened to them. And the two can't be compared, Gonzalez won only 2 gold medals, Stevenson won 3 olympic and 3 world championship medals! Plus 2 Pan Am ones. Plus Teofilo was certainly past his prime when that lumbering idiot beat him.

Yes.That's why we have something called the Internet. It wouldn't take you 40 years to look up these so called "experts."The truth is that you don't have any names to come up with because you lied. There are no "experts" for you to come up with.



I see you think it's OK for Stevenson in his physical prime to beat young amateur fighters(some still teenagers)but when he loses "he's old". And going by your logic Gonzalez should have been a great heavyweight. Gonzalez was only a "lumbering idiot" in the pro ranks. Didn't look like that as an amateur did he?There's a very good chance that Stevenson could have looked like one too when facing a different level of competition.


The burden of proof is on you to come up with why Stevenson would have been great in the pro ranks. An amateur career doesn't prove a damn thing and I've already given you the facts why. Ignoring them doesn't make them go away.



And finally, you are the frustrated one. There is no reason for me to be frustrated. Why would I be? Nobody with any intelligence would rate Stevenson over fighters like Ali.

[Dubblechin]

That's because you can't fix a chin. Either you can take a punch or you can't. If you can't get past that problem you're not going to make it to the highest level when fighters like Tate are blasting you out in a round. It's not like Tate was a huge puncher either. Bobick responded poorly to getting hit. And I think he had that problem in the amateurs as well. When you get laid out for minutes with headgear that's not a good sign for the pro's. Jeremy Williams had the same problem.

I disagree that he couldn't take a punch. The guy had 103 amateur fights and he was only stopped three times as an amateur (one of them coming against Lyle and another coming against Stevenson - hardly disgraceful). In fact, Bobick entered the Stevenson fight with his left eye nearly swollen shut (from eating so many rights in his previous bout) and the it probably should've been a walkover win (due to injury) for Stevenson and never been fought at all, but everyone thought Duane would win.

He also had 52 professional fights and was stopped four times (one of those four via cuts). That's not bad at all. On the contrary, he had a terrible defense and rarely moved his head. If Bobick had a bad chin on top of it, he'd have been knocked out a lot more times than six times in 155 fights.

And even in fights against Norton and Tate, he didn't go down easy. He took flush head shots over and over and over again, because he HAD NO DEFENSE. Norton was winding up and throwing overhand rights that were coming from the floor and hitting Bobick flush. And I think Tate hit him 50 or so flush shots to the head, and Bobick finished on his feet in the corner.

So he wasn't "chinny" like Williams, who got knocked down all the time.

He just didn't take training seriously once he joined the paid ranks. As an amateur, his offense was his defense. In the pros, you can't just streamroll everyone. You have to move your head, and clinch and slip a jab. Like I said, when they turned pro, Bobick was better than Holmes. Five or six years later, Holmes had improved greatly and Bobick didn't look as good in the ring as he did in 1972. He regressed.