What if? Race as an issue

[GJC]

Race/racism is an emotve subject and rightly so but hopefully it can be discussed in a rational way.
Race/racism has had quite an effect on boxing history in particular on certain fighters careers. Obviously the colour bar had far reaching effects but how much did Ali's membership of the Nation of Islam which ultimately led to his exile affect HW history.
From Peter Jackson not getting a shot up to perhaps Cooney being rushed in to a title shot before he was ready because he was a white hope, race has often reared its ugly head.

So my idea for a thread is to imagine the race didn't exist, how would fighters careers and a division history have changed?

I think that this could be a multi strand thread as there are so many scenarios to this. Some such as Langford are obvious, but within even him you may look at different scenarios. He obviously had to chase fights but had he have been treated fairly might he have stayed at MW and what would have happened? Might Ezzard Charles stayed at light heavy and put perhaps a serious crimp in Archie Moore's career?

I despise racism and rely (as always) on Jabs skills to keep this thread on track and not degenerate into an NSB thread.

[Barn]

Ali would be unanimously regarded as the GOAT Heavyweight.

The Black Prince would've been champion when he defeated Corbett as he already had edged out a contest when he tore a muscle in his ankle and was ill.

Johnson would have been HW champ much quicker, possibly giving shots to black fighters who warranted it.

Dempsey would have been FORCED by public demand to fight Harry Wills.

[GJC]

Ali would be unanimously regarded as the GOAT Heavyweight.

Ah but what if? Ali gets to Frazier in 1969 when Frazier was more prime than 71 imo maybe a little complacent.... Also when would he have fought Foreman and would the result have been different? Go on Barn get those creative juices flowing
The entire timelines of divisions would be thrown out imo

Dempsey would have been FORCED by public demand to fight Harry Wills.

Public Opinion is a big factor. Even when there wasn't a colour bar I do think that public opinion would have got a lot of fighters such as Burley and the black murderers row etc shots.

[Forza]

Racism in boxing hardly mattered past 1940. Nobody was being held back because of being black.

In dempsey's era and before yes race mattered.

[GJC]

Nobody was being held back because of being.

Ok and the entire black murderers row got about 2 title shots between them because.....?
It wasn't as overt but you are being naive to think it didn't exist.

[McGoorty]

Race/racism is an emotve subject and rightly so but hopefully it can be discussed in a rational way.
Race/racism has had quite an effect on boxing history in particular on certain fighters careers. Obviously the colour bar had far reaching effects but how much did Ali's membership of the Nation of Islam which ultimately led to his exile affect HW history.
From Peter Jackson not getting a shot up to perhaps Cooney being rushed in to a title shot before he was ready because he was a white hope, race has often reared its ugly head.

So my idea for a thread is to imagine the race didn't exist, how would fighters careers and a division history have changed?

I think that this could be a multi strand thread as there are so many scenarios to this. Some such as Langford are obvious, but within even him you may look at different scenarios. He obviously had to chase fights but had he have been treated fairly might he have stayed at MW and what would have happened? Might Ezzard Charles stayed at light heavy and put perhaps a serious crimp in Archie Moore's career?

I despise racism and rely (as always) on Jabs skills to keep this thread on track and not degenerate into an NSB thread.

Good idea,.. I only found out yesterday that Vic Toweel raised the colour bar against Elley Bennett,........... a disgrace,,,, Carruthers would have still became Champion,...... But it would have been after beating Bennett (he did beat Bennett). Elley Bennett would have destroyed Toweel, by one punch KO. So this stopped Elley Bennett from being the first Aboriginal to win a world Title,............ IN ANY SPORT.

[NChristo]

Ok and the entire black murderers row got about 2 title shots between them because.....?
It wasn't as overt but you are being naive to think it didn't exist.

Because Zale was at war and because they was too good for their own good, race clearly played a 'part' but most of the BMR were exceptionally skilled boxers and would have probably been ducked anyway with the excuse of not being able to pull enough money (I.e Cocoa Kid and Burley vs Robinson) or some other.

But now I've just had the thought of them not pulling enough money because of the race , good thread.

[NChristo]

A modern example and slightly different look. If race wasn't an issue then likely Agbeko would be the Bantam Tournie winner right now as the tosser Russel Mora wouldn't of allowed Mares to get away with all those low blows because of his bias Mexican ways.

[Greatest1942]

Ali would be unanimously regarded as the GOAT Heavyweight.The Black Prince would've been champion when he defeated Corbett as he already had edged out a contest when he tore a muscle in his ankle and was ill.

Johnson would have been HW champ much quicker, possibly giving shots to black fighters who warranted it.

Dempsey would have been FORCED by public demand to fight Harry Wills.

I dont get this Barn...Ali is top 2 anyways...and if he is 2 instead of 1 it is beacuse another Black (Louis ) is at top.

You will agree that Louis can be #1, or a case can be made of him..So I don't think race is an issue here.

If Klit fans rank them #1 ...I think its their ignorance...they will learn with time.

[McGoorty]

Racism in boxing hardly mattered past 1940. Nobody was being held back because of being black.

In dempsey's era and before yes race mattered.

Elley Bennett was Black and South African Vic Toweel refused to accept a fight with Bennett, as I've already said, but I still don't know whether Wills could beat Dempsey..... I just found out something I never knew about. SAM LANGFORD was The Australin HW champion as well as Sam McVey,......... and to think that guy the other day said that all Australian champions are the worst bums on the planet,........... Yes he truly beleved that ,...............Another thing I've heard said all too often,,,,, Indeed Langford never fought for a HW title, but he was given the chance for Walcotts WW title and failed to win that,,,,,,,,,,,,, some people only ever get one chance at something like that.