How is Lennox Lewis not the GOAT HW??

[The_Demon]

I can't see how Liston-Lewis is 50/50.

I can't see anyway you can look at that fight and not atleast favour Liston.

The more i think about it i agree i made a mistake in my earlier post,i certainly favour Liston over Lewis aswell as the names i mentioned,although not as strongly,i see it as a 60/40 fight

[JAB5239]

Wow, thanks! I don't know about that, but I try...it's probably gonna get deleted. I deserve it. I actually like Joey, he's a pretty knowledgeable dude, he just sets himself up by being so crazy passionate about Lewis and Calzaghe.

In spite of his sometimes crazy opinions I like Zags. I think he'll take this in stride as it is pretty funny!

[Scott9945]

In spite of his sometimes crazy opinions I like Zags. I think he'll take this in stride as it is pretty funny!

I agree Jab. Zags has a clear agenda, but I think he does it with a smirk and for the most part is pulling our chains.

[physiker]

who would beat this guy in his prime?

You can discount what Foreman says. This is part of the promo end of boxing "analysts" pushing upcoming fights. And beating a Tyson about 10 years after Douglas did it, and Tyson saying he was done at that earlier point tells you that the Lewis victory over Tyson is virtually meaningless.

Remember Foreman is one of the greatest salesman of all time. Ask him now what he thinks. You know he is being disingenuous because he would naturally want to say he would have beat him, which he probably would have.

In addiiton to Rahman I, and McCall who threw the bomb with his eyes closed, Lewis, many claim, was gifted vs Mercer. But he is up there among ATG HWs by virtue of his size, power, athleticism, and skills. Definitely not #1, as at least 5 others would probably have beaten him. But he is an ATG great HW no doubt.

[nomadman]

Head to head and on his best day I favour Lewis over a lot of great heavyweights, including Foreman. Very few fighters in history possessed the sort of combination of skill, size, power and determination (an underrated aspect of Lewis IMO) that he had. His one drawback for me was his inconsistency. His losses to McCall and especially Rahman came when he was plain and simply not training properly, and he deserved them. But it should be noted that whatever they may have lacked both guys could flat out ****, and they both caught Lewis flush on the jaw with their money punches. They're a black eye on his career of course, but people make too much of them and the fact that he avenged both losses emphatically (if a bit weirdly versus McCall) should mitigate them to a large degree. The Mercer fight was a wee bit controversial, but then so were Ali Norton and Louis Walcott, so if you're going to hold that against him at least put it in perspective.

As far as resume goes, Lewis had a phenomenal one. Holyfield, Tyson, Vitali, Tua, Golota, Mercer, Ruddock, Morrison, Bruno, Briggs, McCall, Rahman, Grant, Botha etc etc. A large number of those fighters he totally destroyed, and not one name on his resume holds a win over him that was not avenged by Lewis at a later date. Since I don't like getting into comparisons with fighters from past eras (a futile and contentious exercise) I will say that he more or less did what every great past champion did, and that was take on as many of the best fighters of his era as were around and willing to fight him. The only fighters whom I've heard Lewis might have "ducked" are Byrd and Ruiz. Not bad when all's said and done.

I won't make any emphatic claim to stating that LL was the GOAT (my sig is not entirely serious if you hadn't guessed) but then I don't make any claim that any fighter, even Ali, was the GOAT either. I will say that he stands in exhalted company though, and would have a good chance of beating anyone in history on the right day.

[JAB5239]

Head to head and on his best day I favour Lewis over a lot of great heavyweights, including Foreman. Very few fighters in history possessed the sort of combination of skill, size, power and determination (an underrated aspect of Lewis IMO) that he had. His one drawback for me was his inconsistency. His losses to McCall and especially Rahman came when he was plain and simply not training properly, and he deserved them. But it should be noted that whatever they may have lacked both guys could flat out ****, and they both caught Lewis flush on the jaw with their money punches. They're a black eye on his career of course, but people make too much of them and the fact that he avenged both losses emphatically (if a bit weirdly versus McCall) should mitigate them to a large degree. The Mercer fight was a wee bit controversial, but then so were Ali Norton and Louis Walcott, so if you're going to hold that against him at least put it in perspective.

As far as resume goes, Lewis had a phenomenal one. Holyfield, Tyson, Vitali, Tua, Golota, Mercer, Ruddock, Morrison, Bruno, Briggs, McCall, Rahman, Grant, Botha etc etc. A large number of those fighters he totally destroyed, and not one name on his resume holds a win over him that was not avenged by Lewis at a later date. Since I don't like getting into comparisons with fighters from past eras (a futile and contentious exercise) I will say that he more or less did what every great past champion did, and that was take on as many of the best fighters of his era as were around and willing to fight him. The only fighters whom I've heard Lewis might have "ducked" are Byrd and Ruiz. Not bad when all's said and done.

I won't make any emphatic claim to stating that LL was the GOAT (my sig is not entirely serious if you hadn't guessed) but then I don't make any claim that any fighter, even Ali, was the GOAT either. I will say that he stands in exhalted company though, and would have a good chance of beating anyone in history on the right day.

One of the best, most well thought out posts I've read in awhile!

[nomadman]

One of the best, most well thought out posts I've read in awhile!

Thanks mate.

[RubenSonny]

The Mercer fight was a wee bit controversial, but then so were Ali Norton and Louis Walcott

I wouldn't make that comparison as both were significantly past prime, and each hold convincing wins (especially in the case of Louis) over those respective opponents, I also hold those fighters in higher regard than Mercer.

Though I don't think I hold Lewis in the same regard as you, it was a good post.

[Ascended]

Anybody who said he would be beat by those outdated 70s is a idiot len fought way more advanced dudes then those

[Ascended]

dempsey: would get outboxed and KO'd cold. dempsey has a 1st round KO loss on his record are u kidding me?

louis: outboxed and jabbed to death. knocked out cold a la shmeling

marciano: outboxed and jabbed to death...

frazier: gets outboxed, LL possibly gets tagged but gets the UD...would look a lot like tua-LL

foreman: LL would be way too cautious to be caught by foreman's slow and wide shots. foreman gets outboxed and possibly tko'd late. LL might get caught by a few bombs tho

liston: gets outboxed although liston has a few good moments

ali before lay off: toss up

ali after lay off: LL by UD

holmes: LL wins close decision

prime tyson: gets outboxed and frustrated by LL's size and jab, LL wins a UD

prime holyfield: LL wins close decision

How is it a toss with Ali he had mutiple flaws they fixed in 80s with the knockoffs he loses

George would be destroyed he was to slow easy to read same as sonny who was even more telegraphed then him so why would you say those 2 would last they both would be destroyed in 1st round