Ranking Vitalis power amongst the ATGs

[Ogecca MaMa]

Briggs at 262 was a disgrace to the sport of boxing yet Vitali who hit him with 400 punches could not put him to sleep, which tells us that Vitali does not have great punching power... Vitali is nothing more than a "Behemoth" the same as Carnera, Valuev & Willard and definately not a ATG Top 20 Heavyweight... Briggs is 38yrs old and has never in his entire career beaten a fighter rated above "Class C" with the exception of his gift decision against 46yr old George Foreman, a decision which was one of the worst in boxing history. Briggs got poleaxed in 3rds when in his prime by a mediocre journeyman Darrell Wilson in the Night of the Young Heavyweights back in 1996 and was undeserving of a title fight against Vitali Klitschko. Vitali has also fought no fighter of worth in his career other than Lennox Lewis with the rest of his career opponents being lower than Class C, Vitali would struggle to beat the other "Lumbering Behemoths" Valuev, Carnera & Willard.

don't you think age cought up Vitali? its funny how most of you after this fight, say that he aint that big of a puncher. idk how then he has this ko% on his record.. you should re-watch his tapes 98-03. definetly no power))

[sonnyboyx2]

don't you think age cought up Vitali? its funny how most of you after this fight, say that he aint that big of a puncher. idk how then he has this ko% on his record.. you should re-watch his tapes 98-03. definetly no power))

i agree that Vitali looks great for his age yet that does not detract from him not being a great puncher. i have 42 of 43 Vitali Klitschko fights on DVD and the caliber of his opponents is terrible with most of them being Class F quality, if for instance Frank Bruno was to have fought the same opponents then Bruno would knock out everyone of them and that includes Shannon Briggs. You need to be realistic when looking a a fighters KO ratio as the quality of the opponents is what matters most not the number behind the %.... Muhammad Ali was never classed as a great KO puncher yet he is the only fighter to KO great fighters like George Foreman & Oscar Bonavena, would Muhammad Ali have KOd Shannon Briggs last night..YES

[XionComrade]

you do understand size matters when taking punches right?at 6' shavers is swinging upward which takes momentum off punches,therefore lessining power.foreman,at 6'4 is usually swinging level,or down.at 45,foreman was able to k.o moorer with 1 punch.a jab at that.shavers would not be capable of that.better case and point would be trinidad.possibly the hardest punching welter ever.mayorga took 3 bombs flush from tito at 160.why was able to take those?cause mayorga was naturally bigger.

point being that,just cause you dont have 1 punch k.o power doesnt mean you dont hit hard,as which is the case with the klits.when it comes to k.o's,its about the right punch,not neccesarily the hardest punch.most k.o's come from temple and chin shots,most shots from the klits land in the eye and cheek area's being that they always punch down

you can paralyze somebody with blunt force anywhere due to nerves,but sorry dude,you cant break somebodys back from a body blow lol

and abe simon is around the same size as sam peter,or ike ibeabuchi.both are around 6'3 wtith very thick frames and jameel mccline and shannon briggs are massive

and tyson knocked mitchs teeth out in a street fight dude.not with gloves on

1 It was with gloves on. Watch the fight, Tyson knocks out Green's mouthpiece midways through the fight, the commentators get a look at it and say that several teeth were still in it..."That's how tough this Mike Tyson character is" They say

2 Yes punching upwards will destroy your momentum, if you have hand weights attached to your wrist >.< Other than that it will not effect the actual power of a punch. It will effect the placement of it, usually positively as it allows a fighter to bring their legs more into the equation(Ala Tua, Tyson, and especially Frazier) Which is a problem with taller punchers, they cannot typically put as much of the quads and other leg muscles into the punch without exposing themselves(And even then it is still not as mechanically effective as it is with just a short fighter)

3 Foreman knocked the hell out of Moorer, it was a straight Right-Left combination, perfectly executed. I remember it was funny because Moorer kept on talking about what a phoney George was even after the fight. George had said he was setting Moorer up for that the whole night and Moorer just wouldn't shut up. When you go back and watch it, George WAS setting him up the entire night XD Slow punches, constantly pulling punches, and overall making himself to seem as a non-threat. Then suddenly BAM, Foreman hit him so hard it pushed his teeth through his lower lip...Lol, I never like Moorer, he complained to much and was so full of himself I didn't feel bad for him when Tua ended it.

4 Tito was a devastating puncher, but like Tyson it wasn't the power that was doing it. Tito was a master at hitting fighters when their guard was down, where they would not expect it. Very strange angles. If you saw it coming you were fine, but the next 3 punches you were more likely to miss. Anyone can knock you out if you aren't ready for it, and seriously damage or even kill you, hence "Protect yourselves at all times". That was the art Tito was part of. He had good power, but great technique. Hence why Mayorga wasn't KTFO from taking those blows, he was hurt pretty bad but not rattled because he was so braced for it.

5 Look at Abe Simon again, Abe is very dry and lean. His shoulders are very very wide. His frame is much larger than any other fighter I have ever seen. Razor Ruddocks shoulders may have been wider, but his waist was very thin. I have never seen a human being with a frame as impressive as Abe's.

6 Your skull and neck are all that protects your brain from a punch, simple as that. That is why Sonny Liston and Mike Tyson were so adamant about working their necks. Holyfield did it too. If your neck was strong enough, Hypothetically, you would be nearly impervious to most punchers. If you were built like Sam Peter, or a gorilla, or Swamp thing, and had a short neck, you would be better suited to take a good shot on the chin than say someone like Wlad with a longer neck. It is not a fool proof way of telling someones ability to take a punch, but it is a big part of it. Their is also the factors of cranial capacity IE bigger space for your brain that would help, but that is very hard to come by(Andre the Giant, Abe Simon, Randy Cobb, other ugly mofos with huge elongated heads) and impossible to improve. Even smaller factors are your nervous system's "durability" and...well...your brains durability...

7 Yes, you CAN break someone's back with a body blow. I used to ride in a delivery truck, a 18 wheeler, helping truck drivers deliver packages with dollys. One day when I was off one of the drivers I frequently rode with was injured. In the back(Forward) compartment of the trucks was a refrigerated area. This area of the trailer was often iced over on the floor, and empty pallets were laying around. The driver was in a hurry and slipped. He fell over to his side and landed on the pallet. The edge of it caught him just below the ribs, on the side part of your abdominals(No clue what those muscles are called lol) It broke his back, severed his spinal chord. The pallet only touched his side, but his spine snapped, he is paralyzed now People are much frailer than you would think...Just from falling over...Imagine taking a shot from Joe Louis in that same area...I have seen idiots trying to take cannon balls and swinging logs to the belly, obviously it snapped their backs like a twig(Some were successful)...Doesn't take anything to **** up your spine

8 Earnie Shavers broke Howard Smith's neck...It is a documented thing(Cracked two vertebrae in his neck O.o) That is terrifying evidence of the power that Shavers had, and other boxer had too. Even if he couldn't get to his opponents head, he is a great body attacker and most heavies today have jelly bellies.

9 Seems to me that their are two different types of power, bone crushing slow and brain liquefying fast. The fast punches are designed to get at your internals, to create reverberations and destroy your brain. The other is like Marciano or Foreman, to break your bones. George didn't have very many one hit KOs, George rarely hit opponents on the temple or chin either, always everywhere else lol...One reason why Foreman gets so much rep for his power is his height, he has to A. Punch down, and B. He cannot get the leverage that a shorter puncher like Shavers or Tyson can...But even with limited leverage crushes near everyone.

10 Its not size, its alllll engineering, highly technical, super advanced, and hardly understood engineering of the skeletal, muscular, nervous, and circulatory system.


11 If anything Shavers fighting taller opponents will only make the punches more devastating, but the range of them shorter as they travel a few inches upwards then over, instead of straight over.

[sonnyboyx2]

sorry.thats not a theory i subscribe to.i think the most talented crop was the 90's even though it didnt produce that many great fights due to these guys mental states and don king.
lewis,tyson,holyfield,bowe,moorer,mercer,morrison, ibeabuchi,tua,tucker,byrd,ruiz,mccall

as far as lewis though,he has weighed at 6 times in his career and a total of 11 times at 250 and very slightly under 250.he was far from flabby and out of shape in those 11 fights.sorry poet.almost as bad a fail as your theory of evolution

you are entitled to your theory but it is not one that many would agree with, you claim that lewis,tyson,holyfield,bowe,moorer,mercer,morrison, ibeabuchi,tua,tucker,byrd,ruiz,mccall are superior to the fighters from the 70s so let us take a quick look at your theory:

Morrison >>> Michael Bent KO1?
Moorer >>>> 45yr old Foreman KO10?
Mercer >>>> schooled by 40yr old Holmes?
Ruiz >>>>>> schooled by Roy Jones?
Tucker >>>>> Herbie Hide KO3?
McCall >>>>> schooled by Mike`Bounty`Hunter?
Byrd ??????
Lewis >>> Poleaxed by 2 mediocre journeymen?
Tua >> Fattest man to ever fight for the title
Tyson, Holyfield & Bowe >> Yes they could compete in the 1970s but would they beat Ali, Frazier, Patterson, Holmes, Quarry, Bonavena, Lyle, Norton & Foreman? i don't think so.
Jerry Quarry would hammer David Tua like he did Earnie Shavers, Foreman would bounce Tua & Tyson around like a basketball while Smokin Joe Frazier would smoke them all.

[sonnyboyx2]

1 It was with gloves on. Watch the fight, Tyson knocks out Green's mouthpiece midways through the fight, the commentators get a look at it and say that several teeth were still in it..."That's how tough this Mike Tyson character is" They say

2 Yes punching upwards will destroy your momentum, if you have hand weights attached to your wrist >.< Other than that it will not effect the actual power of a punch. It will effect the placement of it, usually positively as it allows a fighter to bring their legs more into the equation(Ala Tua, Tyson, and especially Frazier) Which is a problem with taller punchers, they cannot typically put as much of the quads and other leg muscles into the punch without exposing themselves(And even then it is still not as mechanically effective as it is with just a short fighter)

3 Foreman knocked the hell out of Moorer, it was a straight Right-Left combination, perfectly executed. I remember it was funny because Moorer kept on talking about what a phoney George was even after the fight. George had said he was setting Moorer up for that the whole night and Moorer just wouldn't shut up. When you go back and watch it, George WAS setting him up the entire night XD Slow punches, constantly pulling punches, and overall making himself to seem as a non-threat. Then suddenly BAM, Foreman hit him so hard it pushed his teeth through his lower lip...Lol, I never like Moorer, he complained to much and was so full of himself I didn't feel bad for him when Tua ended it.

4 Tito was a devastating puncher, but like Tyson it wasn't the power that was doing it. Tito was a master at hitting fighters when their guard was down, where they would not expect it. Very strange angles. If you saw it coming you were fine, but the next 3 punches you were more likely to miss. Anyone can knock you out if you aren't ready for it, and seriously damage or even kill you, hence "Protect yourselves at all times". That was the art Tito was part of. He had good power, but great technique. Hence why Mayorga wasn't KTFO from taking those blows, he was hurt pretty bad but not rattled because he was so braced for it.

5 Look at Abe Simon again, Abe is very dry and lean. His shoulders are very very wide. His frame is much larger than any other fighter I have ever seen. Razor Ruddocks shoulders may have been wider, but his waist was very thin. I have never seen a human being with a frame as impressive as Abe's.

6 Your skull and neck are all that protects your brain from a punch, simple as that. That is why Sonny Liston and Mike Tyson were so adamant about working their necks. Holyfield did it too. If your neck was strong enough, Hypothetically, you would be nearly impervious to most punchers. If you were built like Sam Peter, or a gorilla, or Swamp thing, and had a short neck, you would be better suited to take a good shot on the chin than say someone like Wlad with a longer neck. It is not a fool proof way of telling someones ability to take a punch, but it is a big part of it. Their is also the factors of cranial capacity IE bigger space for your brain that would help, but that is very hard to come by(Andre the Giant, Abe Simon, Randy Cobb, other ugly mofos with huge elongated heads) and impossible to improve. Even smaller factors are your nervous system's "durability" and...well...your brains durability...

7 Yes, you CAN break someone's back with a body blow. I used to ride in a delivery truck, a 18 wheeler, helping truck drivers deliver packages with dollys. One day when I was off one of the drivers I frequently rode with was injured. In the back(Forward) compartment of the trucks was a refrigerated area. This area of the trailer was often iced over on the floor, and empty pallets were laying around. The driver was in a hurry and slipped. He fell over to his side and landed on the pallet. The edge of it caught him just below the ribs, on the side part of your abdominals(No clue what those muscles are called lol) It broke his back, severed his spinal chord. The pallet only touched his side, but his spine snapped, he is paralyzed now People are much frailer than you would think...Just from falling over...Imagine taking a shot from Joe Louis in that same area...I have seen idiots trying to take cannon balls and swinging logs to the belly, obviously it snapped their backs like a twig(Some were successful)...Doesn't take anything to **** up your spine

8 Earnie Shavers broke Howard Smith's neck...It is a documented thing(Cracked two vertebrae in his neck O.o) That is terrifying evidence of the power that Shavers had, and other boxer had too. Even if he couldn't get to his opponents head, he is a great body attacker and most heavies today have jelly bellies.

9 Seems to me that their are two different types of power, bone crushing slow and brain liquefying fast. The fast punches are designed to get at your internals, to create reverberations and destroy your brain. The other is like Marciano or Foreman, to break your bones. George didn't have very many one hit KOs, George rarely hit opponents on the temple or chin either, always everywhere else lol...One reason why Foreman gets so much rep for his power is his height, he has to A. Punch down, and B. He cannot get the leverage that a shorter puncher like Shavers or Tyson can...But even with limited leverage crushes near everyone.

10 Its not size, its alllll engineering, highly technical, super advanced, and hardly understood engineering of the skeletal, muscular, nervous, and circulatory system.


11 If anything Shavers fighting taller opponents will only make the punches more devastating, but the range of them shorter as they travel a few inches upwards then over, instead of straight over.

Excellent post... i would elaborate on punching upwards in that a fighter gets maximum power into his punches when punching upwards as he can twist on the ball of his feet to maximize his entire body into the punch whereas a fighter is at a disadvantage when having to punch downwards as his feet need to be "riveted" to the floor while throwing the punch which is then only arm strength.

[$Bullsfam$]

His KO percentage is kind of deceiving even though he is my favorite of the 2 over his sister because he actually has a work rate. He's more of a punches in bunches type of guy. If he was a bit more aggressive rather then hitting him with 2-3 punches then stopped, and just kept wailing on him I think he would have gotten the stoppage. I wish Emanuel was in his corner instead of his sisters because I don't know what his trainer was saying but I think Steward would have given him more motivation to get him out of there. My guess is his trainer told him to be cautious to not get caught in the last round.

But I give Briggs all the credit in the world for hanging in there even though he didn't belong in there in the first place. You can't hate on his hard heart though. He never quit and I respect that.

He's a B level puncher compared to the ATG's.

[r.burgundy]

1 It was with gloves on. Watch the fight, Tyson knocks out Green's mouthpiece midways through the fight, the commentators get a look at it and say that several teeth were still in it..."That's how tough this Mike Tyson character is" They say

2 Yes punching upwards will destroy your momentum, if you have hand weights attached to your wrist >.< Other than that it will not effect the actual power of a punch. It will effect the placement of it, usually positively as it allows a fighter to bring their legs more into the equation(Ala Tua, Tyson, and especially Frazier) Which is a problem with taller punchers, they cannot typically put as much of the quads and other leg muscles into the punch without exposing themselves(And even then it is still not as mechanically effective as it is with just a short fighter)

3 Foreman knocked the hell out of Moorer, it was a straight Right-Left combination, perfectly executed. I remember it was funny because Moorer kept on talking about what a phoney George was even after the fight. George had said he was setting Moorer up for that the whole night and Moorer just wouldn't shut up. When you go back and watch it, George WAS setting him up the entire night XD Slow punches, constantly pulling punches, and overall making himself to seem as a non-threat. Then suddenly BAM, Foreman hit him so hard it pushed his teeth through his lower lip...Lol, I never like Moorer, he complained to much and was so full of himself I didn't feel bad for him when Tua ended it.

4 Tito was a devastating puncher, but like Tyson it wasn't the power that was doing it. Tito was a master at hitting fighters when their guard was down, where they would not expect it. Very strange angles. If you saw it coming you were fine, but the next 3 punches you were more likely to miss. Anyone can knock you out if you aren't ready for it, and seriously damage or even kill you, hence "Protect yourselves at all times". That was the art Tito was part of. He had good power, but great technique. Hence why Mayorga wasn't KTFO from taking those blows, he was hurt pretty bad but not rattled because he was so braced for it.

5 Look at Abe Simon again, Abe is very dry and lean. His shoulders are very very wide. His frame is much larger than any other fighter I have ever seen. Razor Ruddocks shoulders may have been wider, but his waist was very thin. I have never seen a human being with a frame as impressive as Abe's.

6 Your skull and neck are all that protects your brain from a punch, simple as that. That is why Sonny Liston and Mike Tyson were so adamant about working their necks. Holyfield did it too. If your neck was strong enough, Hypothetically, you would be nearly impervious to most punchers. If you were built like Sam Peter, or a gorilla, or Swamp thing, and had a short neck, you would be better suited to take a good shot on the chin than say someone like Wlad with a longer neck. It is not a fool proof way of telling someones ability to take a punch, but it is a big part of it. Their is also the factors of cranial capacity IE bigger space for your brain that would help, but that is very hard to come by(Andre the Giant, Abe Simon, Randy Cobb, other ugly mofos with huge elongated heads) and impossible to improve. Even smaller factors are your nervous system's "durability" and...well...your brains durability...

7 Yes, you CAN break someone's back with a body blow. The driver was in a hurry and slipped. He fell over to his side and landed on the pallet. The edge of it caught him just below the ribs, on the side part of your abdominals(No clue what those muscles are called lol) It broke his back, severed his spinal chord. The pallet only touched his side, but his spine snapped, he is paralyzed now

8 Earnie Shavers broke Howard Smith's neck...It is a documented thing(Cracked two vertebrae in his neck O.o) That is terrifying evidence of the power that Shavers had, and other boxer had too. Even if he couldn't get to his opponents head, he is a great body attacker and most heavies today have jelly bellies.

9 Seems to me that their are two different types of power, bone crushing slow and brain liquefying fast. The fast punches are designed to get at your internals, to create reverberations and destroy your brain. The other is like Marciano or Foreman, to break your bones. George didn't have very many one hit KOs, George rarely hit opponents on the temple or chin either, always everywhere else lol...One reason why Foreman gets so much rep for his power is his height, he has to A. Punch down, and B. He cannot get the leverage that a shorter puncher like Shavers or Tyson can...But even with limited leverage crushes near everyone.

10 Its not size, its alllll engineering, highly technical, super advanced, and hardly understood engineering of the skeletal, muscular, nervous, and circulatory system.


11 If anything Shavers fighting taller opponents will only make the punches more devastating, but the range of them shorter as they travel a few inches upwards then over, instead of straight over.

1)well regardless.tyson is 1 of the hardest hitters ever.

2)stop acting silly.you know good well that your feet have to be planted to have maximum power.and you should know good well about angles and momentum.an uppercut carries upward momentum.a right cross or strait is meant to be thrown strait to be most effective,as is a hook.strait is where they have the most momentum cause thats how they are meant to be thrown.youy put your leg muscles into a punch by planting your feet

3)yes foreman did knock the hell out of moorer.but dont 4get he got his ass kicked thouroughly before that.be even still i dont buy georges excuse that he set that up perfectly.i always thought moorer went down from the punch and exhaustion.i never liked moorer either but he was a very skilled boxer

4)its quite the opposite with tito.his boxing technique was terrible which is why he was thoroughly outclassed by oscar,hopkins,and wright.3 superb boxers.tito had great power but poor technique

5)ive seen abe plenty,he is big,but like i said he looks like peter to me.jameel mcline is way larger than him

6)exactly.which is why punches on the chin cause k.o's.the klits very rarely land on the chin as its not a good target for them.they land in the eye and cheek area which is why guys faces are a mess after fighting them

7)that still wasnt a body blow.and yes your spine can sever throuh a hard fall on and object being as how you can knock a disc out but still i dont know of any instance when somebody broke a back from a punch

9)exactly.george also fought guys more suited to modern cruisers.but as i said earlier,he doesnt hit you in areas that generally produce k.os.those times he did,like norton,and frazier it was spectacular

sorry dude,thats not how physics works.the most simplest example i can give is if car accelerates up a hill at 60 mph,it wont actually be moving at 60 do the resistance of moving upwards.thats basic science man

and to further add,briggs was taken to the hospital for a broken orbital bone,and nose

[XionComrade]

1)well regardless.tyson is 1 of the hardest hitters ever.

2)stop acting silly.you know good well that your feet have to be planted to have maximum power.and you should know good well about angles and momentum.an uppercut carries upward momentum.a right cross or strait is meant to be thrown strait to be most effective,as is a hook.strait is where they have the most momentum cause thats how they are meant to be thrown.youy put your leg muscles into a punch by planting your feet

3)yes foreman did knock the hell out of moorer.but dont 4get he got his ass kicked thouroughly before that.be even still i dont buy georges excuse that he set that up perfectly.i always thought moorer went down from the punch and exhaustion.i never liked moorer either but he was a very skilled boxer

4)its quite the opposite with tito.his boxing technique was terrible which is why he was thoroughly outclassed by oscar,hopkins,and wright.3 superb boxers.tito had great power but poor technique

5)ive seen abe plenty,he is big,but like i said he looks like peter to me.jameel mcline is way larger than him

6)exactly.which is why punches on the chin cause k.o's.the klits very rarely land on the chin as its not a good target for them.they land in the eye and cheek area which is why guys faces are a mess after fighting them

7)that still wasnt a body blow.and yes your spine can sever throuh a hard fall on and object being as how you can knock a disc out but still i dont know of any instance when somebody broke a back from a punch

9)exactly.george also fought guys more suited to modern cruisers.but as i said earlier,he doesnt hit you in areas that generally produce k.os.those times he did,like norton,and frazier it was spectacular

sorry dude,thats not how physics works.the most simplest example i can give is if car accelerates up a hill at 60 mph,it wont actually be moving at 60 do the resistance of moving upwards.thats basic science man

and to further add,briggs was taken to the hospital for a broken orbital bone,and nose

1. Yes Tyson was insanely devastating, but not nearly as powerful as Foreman or Tua.

2. A hook, or cross, can travel upwards ala Joe Frazier or Mike Tyson. It WILL have more power if it is angled upwards towards a taller opponent not only because your feet will be better planted into the ground, but the deliverer will be able to absorb the shock of the punch they are throwing better through their feet. If you didn't plant your feet you would just fall over when you threw a punch...you do not use your legs by planting your feet(George Foreman)...You use your legs by using your legs >.<

3. Yeah Moorer was making George look foolish, but notice that George's shots were usually pulled before the KO blow

4. Tito's boxing technique may have been "terrible", but his punching technique WAS amazing...that is what I was saying.

5. If you cut the fat off of Peter and Mccline they would be fairly skinny for men that height, neither has broad shoulders or a very barreled chest.

7. A pallet is only 3 or 4 inches tall tops, the point was that from a shot to the side his back broke, and as I said I have seen morons taking logs to the belly that snapped their backs. So it is possible to break someone's back with a body shot, albeit it would take a awesomely powerful punch

....The punch traveling upwards and the car is a horrible horrible analogy...are you even trying here? If the car is moving at 60 miles an hour, whether it has fallen out of a plane, is going down hill, or going straight up hill...it is still going 60 miles per hour....The only resistance to the fighter punching upwards is gravity and air...I don't think that is going to hold them back, do you? Sorry dude, that's not how physics work...

And if Briggs was fighting a heavy handed fighter, like Joe Louis or Ron Lyle, he would probably have been maimed...He was a stationary defenseless target.

[r.burgundy]

you are entitled to your theory but it is not one that many would agree with, you claim that lewis,tyson,holyfield,bowe,moorer,mercer,morrison, ibeabuchi,tua,tucker,byrd,ruiz,mccall are superior to the fighters from the 70s so let us take a quick look at your theory:

Morrison >>> Michael Bent KO1?
Moorer >>>> 45yr old Foreman KO10?
Mercer >>>> schooled by 40yr old Holmes?
Ruiz >>>>>> schooled by Roy Jones?
Tucker >>>>> Herbie Hide KO3?
McCall >>>>> schooled by Mike`Bounty`Hunter?
Byrd ??????
Lewis >>> Poleaxed by 2 mediocre journeymen?
Tua >> Fattest man to ever fight for the title
Tyson, Holyfield & Bowe >> Yes they could compete in the 1970s but would they beat Ali, Frazier, Patterson, Holmes, Quarry, Bonavena, Lyle, Norton & Foreman? i don't think so.
Jerry Quarry would hammer David Tua like he did Earnie Shavers, Foreman would bounce Tua & Tyson around like a basketball while Smokin Joe Frazier would smoke them all.

tua is fatter than buster mathis?

[XionComrade]

tua is fatter than buster mathis?

Lol I never really thought of Tua as fat, he is a legitimate tank. He has alot of fat on him, but has huge bones and is designed like a barrel lol