Were Jack Dempsey's Gloves Loaded In Toledo, Ohio 1919?

[TacticalTiming]

No sign of plaster of paris.

The test sports illustrated conducted in 1964, using the method described by Kearns, they wrapped the hands of heavyweight contender Cleveland Williams with the plaster wraps. After hitting the bag a few times the plaster crumbled. They concluded it would be more hazardess for the wearer's hands than to the opponent.

so your saying that it makes sense that Dempsey left the ring after the first round to get the plaster out of his gloves?

it also makes sense that most of the damage done to Willard was done in the first round.

[Southpaw Stinger]

so your saying that it makes sense that Dempsey left the ring after the first round to get the plaster out of his gloves?

it also makes sense that most of the damage done to Willard was done in the first round.

I'm not saying, Sports Illustrated is saying.

But what you say is not supported by the facts. Again, if plaster of Paris were used, it would have taken a hacksaw to get the wraps off after the fight. But the gloves and wraps were easily removed in full view by Teddy Hayes after the fight.

[Obama]

I'm not saying, Sports Illustrated is saying.

But what you say is not supported by the facts. Again, if plaster of Paris were used, it would have taken a hacksaw to get the wraps off after the fight. But the gloves and wraps were easily removed in full view by Teddy Hayes after the fight.

As mentioned previously paster of paris has not been found in actual loaded gloves cases. We shouldn't focus on the material, we should just focus on whether there was an illegal substance or not. And if there was one, it's likely something that is:

1) Easily removable.
2) Not easily broken.
3) Not very obvious to spectators without close, detailed investigation.

[Southpaw Stinger]

As mentioned previously paster of paris has not been found in actual loaded gloves cases. We shouldn't focus on the material, we should just focus on whether there was an illegal substance or not. And if there was one, it's likely something that is:

1) Easily removable.
2) Not easily broken.
3) Not very obvious to spectators without close, detailed investigation.

I remember an intertview with the late BBC boxing reporter, Harry Carpenter. He said he did an interview with Jess Willard (who was in his 70's at the time)
He mentioned the loaded gloves to Willard who said something like, "The plaster of Paris is nonsense. What really happend was Dempsey held an iron rod in his left glove, which is what did the damage." He took Harry's finger and rubbed it against a dent on his forehead. He said "No human being could dent my bone like that"
Willard then got off his chair, went across the room and produced a box from his cupboard. In the box was a small iron rod. Willard said that Dempsey dropped it near the end of the first round and one of Jess' corner men picked it up. That would explain the lack of knockdowns after round one.

It's interesting, whether you believe it or not. If you watch the films you can see something that could be a cigar or possibly a bolt on the ring canvas at some points in the fight.





Anyone who has researched this fight in detail... or who has an ounce of common sense knows that the plaster story is illogical and just pure bull****. The iron rod maybe too. But that at least has some evidence to back it up.

[Stone Roses!]

Ok Southpaw you have me interested here mate. Do you reckon you can dig out that Harry Carpenter Williard interview on youtube? you've got me real curious

[TacticalTiming]

I'm not saying, Sports Illustrated is saying.

But what you say is not supported by the facts. Again, if plaster of Paris were used, it would have taken a hacksaw to get the wraps off after the fight. But the gloves and wraps were easily removed in full view by Teddy Hayes after the fight.

how is a hacksaw supporting the facts if after hitting the bag a few times the plaster just crumbled?

to me it seems very logical that after any one of many shots Dempsey threw in the first round the plaster would have crumble and the wraps easily cut off or the cracking of the plaster its self could have even ripped apart the gauze its self. this combined with no one knowing where he was after the first round and that any one using plaster would want to get the plaster out quickly after its done its damage but before it starts to hurt your hands all seems to point twords dempsey using plaster, running from the ring after the first round having the wraps quickly cut plaster removed and hand re-wrapped with in the min to get him back in the ring.

5-10 seconds to get out of the ring cut the wraps and get rid of the plaster then another 30-40 seconds to re-wrap his hands and then from that point on the damage was done and all he needed to do was win with his legit wraps which also supports the fact that he ddidnt have anything in his gloves at the end of the match.

[sleazyfellow]

Kearns was not some nut hugging reporter who clings onto the balls of Dempsey. He was his Trainer. That fact alone is simply immense. Debunked with Flim? Not entirely. read above post. Scientifically? You mean that little primary school science experiment conducted on Cleve Williams?

The fact remains that this is the account of Jack Dempsey's trainer. This is substantial evidence.

He did cling to Dempsys balls till they had a real bad break off, as Jack beleived Kearns wasnt giving him his share or whatever...so whatever kearns said dont mean anything.

Ok Southpaw you have me interested here mate. Do you reckon you can dig out that Harry Carpenter Williard interview on youtube? you've got me real curious

The interview with Williard isnt up on youtube I beleive, but here is a vid where Tyson is talking about it.



I dont beleive it either...Willard got his ass jumped on in the first round and didnt expect it, those in his corner said Jack was hitting him "off guard" or something to that affect. I guess he expected Dempsy to fight like a gentleman, and we all know now Jack never fought like one in the fights we seen on film.

[JAB5239]

People can second guess till the end of time, but the facts point to NO loaded gloves.

[Southpaw Stinger]

to me it seems very logical that after any one of many shots Dempsey threw in the first round the plaster would have crumble and the wraps easily cut off or the cracking of the plaster its self could have even ripped apart the gauze its self. this combined with no one knowing where he was after the first round and that any one using plaster would want to get the plaster out quickly after its done its damage but before it starts to hurt your hands all seems to point twords dempsey using plaster, running from the ring after the first round having the wraps quickly cut plaster removed and hand re-wrapped with in the min to get him back in the ring.

5-10 seconds to get out of the ring cut the wraps and get rid of the plaster then another 30-40 seconds to re-wrap his hands and then from that point on the damage was done and all he needed to do was win with his legit wraps which also supports the fact that he ddidnt have anything in his gloves at the end of the match.

Are you really serious with that theory? That sounds like a Mission Impossible plot to pull that one off. Firstly, no one heard the bell and a bunch of people invaded the ring thinking the fight was over. Dempsey left the ring thinking he'd won the fight, but Jack Kearns and Dempsey's team remained in the ring calling him back. So who was mean't to change the wraps?
Also, if you researched the fight, you'd know that there was only one entrance/exit to the arena, which was closed and guarded to prevent people getting in without paying. (A huge risk if there would have been a fire) So Dempsey never left the stadium and was moving through the crowd being patted on the back by spectators. It was then that Kearns dashed out and made his way through the crowd, turned Dempsey around and guided him back to the ring. Dempsey was in full view of the crowd all that time.
So when, and by whom were the wraps changed so quickly without being seen?

[Sugarj]

I'm with Southpaw Stinger on this one, I remember reading about the Jess Willard interview too. Jess said that Dempsey had the iron bolt concealed in his left glove.

I dont believe Willard ever supported the plaster of paris rumour............hell he took the punches!

I dont personally think that some plaster powder with water on Dempsey's bandages would do much good anyway, just rip Dempsey's nuckles to shreads and make it painful to land punches......and thats if it had time to set! If not, the bandages would be sloshy and heavy and could cause Dempsey to tire as the fight went on.

The iron bolt story has at least some credibility!

But that said, Dempsey is an idol of mine...............and over the course of his career he clearly had ridiculous power without the need for props.