Jack Dempsey or Harry Greb?

[mickey malone]

Dempsey - World heavyweight champion 1919-1926
Greb - World middleweight champion 1923-1926

Al these fights happened between 1918 and 1923:-

Battling Levinski - Lost to Greb x3 (pts).. Lost to Dempsey x1 (ko3)

Billy Miske - Lost to Greb x1 (pts).. Lost to Dempsey x2 (pts & ko3)

Homer Smith - Lost to Greb x1 (ko7).. Lost to Dempsey x1 (ko1)

Jimmy Darcy - Lost to Greb x1 (pts).. Lost to Dempsey x1 (pts)

Tommy Gibbons - Lost to Greb x1 (pts).. Lost to Dempsey x1 (pts)

Gun Boat Smith - Lost to Greb x1 (ko1).. Lost to Dempsey x1 (ko2)

Bill Brennan - Lost to Greb x1 (pts).. Lost to Dempsey x1 (ko12)

Willie Meehan - Lost Greb x1 (pts).. Beat Dempsey x1 (pts)

But they never fought each other ?????????????????

Who was greater?

[Southpaw Great]

Greb and it aint close imo......

[Joeyzagz]

Regardless of my criticism I actually like Dempsey. I think his style was entertaining and he is a great personality for the sport. But he is probably the most over-rated boxer of his era.

Greb was beating the crap out of Heavyweights and did what Dempsey failed to do twice! If you put Greb in a time machine he could probably breeze through the supersix, not sure how Dempsey would do in this era, but yeah Greb sounds like quite the freak.

[Obama]

Mickey you can't be serious.

[mickey malone]

Mickey you can't be serious.

Yes, I am. On your history section it would be classed as a joke question, but the history section here isn't as refined. Diversity of opinion is fairly rife where these 2 are concerned. I'm of the opinion that Dempsey is overrated, but there are other posters who believe he'd clear out the heavies of today.. And with regard to Greb, there's the odd couple on here who refer to him as a fictional character, this mainly being due to the lack of footage on him..
I'm not in any way critiscising your history section, as most of the posts are started by your goodself and state all the facts to begin with, thus setting the standards for a more ballanced debate. Where as on here, people just "come out with things" so yes, I am serious (to begin with lol)

And I do apologize for not posting for a while, I will visit again shortly.

[sonnyboyx2]

Dempsey would beat any fighter in history with the exception of Cassius Clay... he would beat Foreman, Holmes, Louis, Liston, Marciano, Frazier, Tyson, Holyfield & the Klitschko brothers..

Harry Greb a phenominal fighting machine with an incredible record who would surely be a match for any fighter in any era from 160-175lbs and proberbly the greater fighter of the two.

Head-To-Head - Greb dont have the legs or scientific ability of Gene Tunney so would have to fight Dempsey and like i said above, "no one could fight a prime Jack Dempsey" he was to ferocious with ko power in both fists as well as excellent fighting ability, Dempsey would KO Greb

[mickey malone]

Dempsey would beat any fighter in history with the exception of Cassius Clay... he would beat Foreman, Holmes, Louis, Liston, Marciano, Frazier, Tyson, Holyfield & the Klitschko brothers..

He'd give all of them problems, but I don't see any Sharkey's, Willard's or Carpentier's on that list.. Holmes was just like a bigger version of Gene Tunney with a very similar style, so I wouldn't rate Jack's chances in that one..

Head-To-Head - Greb dont have the legs or scientific ability of Gene Tunney so would have to fight Dempsey and like i said above, "no one could fight a prime Jack Dempsey" he was to ferocious with ko power in both fists as well as excellent fighting ability, Dempsey would KO Greb

I don't think he was quite as good as you say he was, but yes, he'd stand a good chance of knocking out Greb, but judging by the comparisons that I made in the opening post, it wouldn't have been 'out of the question' that Greb would have quite possibly taken him the distance.. Especially if it was one of Dempsey's cushy 4 rounders, or a 10 round defense of his title..

[Obama]

Head-To-Head - Greb dont have the legs or scientific ability of Gene Tunney so would have to fight Dempsey and like i said above, "no one could fight a prime Jack Dempsey" he was to ferocious with ko power in both fists as well as excellent fighting ability, Dempsey would KO Greb

So I guess when Kearns kicked Greb out of Dempsey's sparring camp for kicking his ass, that was just a fluke.

[sonnyboyx2]

Dempsey would beat any fighter in history with the exception of Cassius Clay... he would beat Foreman, Holmes, Louis, Liston, Marciano, Frazier, Tyson, Holyfield & the Klitschko brothers..

He'd give all of them problems, but I don't see any Sharkey's, Willard's or Carpentier's on that list.. Holmes was just like a bigger version of Gene Tunney with a very similar style, so I wouldn't rate Jack's chances in that one..

Head-To-Head - Greb dont have the legs or scientific ability of Gene Tunney so would have to fight Dempsey and like i said above, "no one could fight a prime Jack Dempsey" he was to ferocious with ko power in both fists as well as excellent fighting ability, Dempsey would KO Greb

I don't think he was quite as good as you say he was, but yes, he'd stand a good chance of knocking out Greb, but judging by the comparisons that I made in the opening post, it wouldn't have been 'out of the question' that Greb would have quite possibly taken him the distance.. Especially if it was one of Dempsey's cushy 4 rounders, or a 10 round defense of his title..

yes i agree that Greb could well go the distance with Dempsey..

Holmes in no way replicates Gene Tunney, it is my opinion that Holmes was a far greater fighter when fighting flat-footed than he was on his toes trying to imitate Muhammad Ali, Holmes often got levelled when on his toes (Tyson Shavers).. Dempsey would swarm all over Holmes and knock him out similar to his 4th round against Tyson yet more brutal and devastating.

here is a piece from boxing historian Eric Jorgenson:

With respect to Dempsey, there is an additional "biasing factor" relating to films. The film clip most people see is the second half of his first round against Jess Willard, when Dempsey had Willard reeling around the ring and ready to go. Yes, he looks wild, perhaps even "crude", as The Ring's editor-n-chief Nigel Collins contends, but pretty much every fighter looks that way in such circumstances. Anyone troubling himself to view the second and third rounds of that fight, when Dempsey was catching his breath after his premature victory celebration following his apparent 1-round win had left him a bit winded, would have to concede that Dempsey appears highly skillful
bouncing nimbly beyond Willard's reach, deftly slipping punches, etc.

In fact, Dempsey was an extremely skilled and versatile fighter all around, more along the lines of a heavyweight Roberto Duran than a prehistoric version of Marciano and Frazier (as many today seem to believe). He had the same granite jaw, remarkable stamina, and indomitable will that Marciano and Frazier had, but was quicker, a much better boxer, and, consequently, much harder to hit than either one of them. Also, he neither cut like Marciano nor swelled like Frazier. Finally, whereas Marciano and Frazier tended to wear their opponents down over the course of a fight, Dempsey had one-punch power in both hands (indeed, he was one of the very few fighters in heavyweight history who hit equally hard from each side). He demolished big, modern-sized heavyweights (Willard, Carl Morris, Fred Fulton, and Luis Firpo, among others) in record time. And, whatever their merits as overall fighters (and I submit that they have been underappreciated by boxing historians), those fighters were tough and strong, and these fights demonstrate that Dempsey's power would have proven effective against today's heavyweights. Dempsey possessed an extraordinary combination of skills which allowed him to handle any style he encountered.

[Miburo]

Greb ranks higher, although head-to-head Dempsey would have beaten him as they purportedly had similar styles.