Bert Sugar ''Pep, B. Leonard, Greb, and Louis are Greater Than Ali''

[Southpaw Great]

Thougths on this.......?

[Miburo]

Sugar is a huge homer for the real old-time fighters. He's probably right about Pep though at least.

[JAB5239]

Sugar is a huge homer for the real old-time fighters. He's probably right about Pep though at least.

I think he's right about Pep, Greb and Leonard, with Louis being arguable.

[Miburo]

I think he's right about Pep, Greb and Leonard, with Louis being arguable.

I don't know, the level of competition was so much lower in the 10s and 20s I find it hard to class them as eternally better than modern fighters.

[NChristo]

Agree with Jab, think Bert was right about Pep, Leonard and Greb being better Louis is arguable.

[PeterS60]

I always thought people made the mistake of considering Ali "The Greatest" because he was the greatest sports personality of all time. Inside the ring, I put him below Louis and Marciano (although that may be a personal fondness for Rocky, rather than a fighter rating) as far as the Heavyweights go, even before we get to all weight classes. I've been wondering lately if Ali would have been champion at all if Liston didn't exist--with Patterson as champ, more of a boxer than a slugger, would Ali have been able to take advantage of a faster and more thoughtful opponent? True, Ali beat Patterson later on, but I always felt that Floyd had emptied his tank career-wise by the time he met Ali.

[r.burgundy]

bert sugar is a joke.he hates modern fighters and from his statements i believe him to be a closet racist.he tries so hard to perserve the myths of these old white fighters.its very comical

[JAB5239]

I don't know, the level of competition was so much lower in the 10s and 20s I find it hard to class them as eternally better than modern fighters.

Leonard fought in the best era of lightweights at a time when boxing was much more popular, as well as populated, and Greb beat a who's who of great fighters. Out of the original weight classes I believe heavyweight sports the least talent historically. Ali's era was great and his opponents were top notch, but I just don't seeing them being as tough or as talented as the fighters Leonard and Greb beat.

[JAB5239]

bert sugar is a joke.he hates modern fighters and from his statements i believe him to be a closet racist.he tries so hard to perserve the myths of these old white fighters.its very comical

What statements?

[TheGreatA]

I don't know, the level of competition was so much lower in the 10s and 20s I find it hard to class them as eternally better than modern fighters.

I find Greb and Leonard's level of competition quite astonishing.

I've seen Gene Tunney, Tommy Loughran, Mickey Walker, Willie Ritchie, Freddie Welsh, Jimmy Delaney, Kid Norfolk, Tommy Gibbons, Mike Gibbons, Mike O'Dowd, Mike McTigue, Lew Tendler and Ted "Kid" Lewis on film, all were very impressive fighters.