Evaluate George Foreman's Legacy Pre-First Retirement

[bklynboy]

The 1973 George Foreman would IMO

Foreman vs Tyson --- Foreman by KO2
Foreman vs Holyfield -Foreman by KO5
Foreman vs Lewis ----Foreman by KO2
Foreman vs Holmes --Foreman by KO4
Foreman vs Marciano - Foreman by KO4
Foreman vs Walcott --- Foreman by KO4
Foreman vs Jeffries ---- Foreman by KO3
Foreman vs Patterson -- Foreman by KO2

George may struggle with the others listed.. yet do not forget that George Foreman was the `Hardest puncher in Boxing history`

He was among the hardest hitters, true. But he threw very wide punches. I for one think that Jersey Joe would take Foreman apart as Hopkins destroyed Pavlik.

[boxerca]

Like someone stated in this thread, his legacy would be similar to that of Sonny Liston's and I don't have Liston in my top 10. Top 20? Sure. But not top 10.

It was because of his comeback that he deserves to be a top 10 heavyweight of all-time.

[tstyle]

I also agree that he would not have made the list if not for the comeback, but taking nothing away from "Big George Foreman".

However I disagree with people who are bringing up this " tailor made " idea of matchups and excuses. a W is a W , a L is a L. Every boxer knows the rules of the game, it's up to them to employ the fight.

[sonnyboyx2]

I've never really liked making hard and fast top 10s. There's a whole lot of problem making them. The biggest problem I face are match-ups. I'm a believer in "styles makes fights." I think that Marciano would give Ali problems in the same way that Frazier gave Ali problems. But does that mean that Marciano was better than Ali. Hell No. So Marciano would be below Ali. I think that Foreman would always KO Frazier, but does that make him better? No. Frazier and Marciano (IMHO) would always give Louis and Ali problems, but Ali and Louis would beat the clubbing, wide-armed Foreman. I hate ranking fighters by match-ups. Too problematic and ultimately we'll never know.

I place Foreman as a top 10, but barely. In my mind Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali are definately better than George Foreman. They are -- in my opinion -- definately top 5 heavyweights.

But there are at least 5 or 6 other fighters -- if not more -- who are borderline top 10 heavyweights with Foreman. Jim Jeffries, Rocky Marciano, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson and George Foreman are top 10 fighters. But a case can be made for Jersey Joe, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis.

I think Jersey Joe would beat Foreman -- but as said before I don't like judging TOP 10 lists by who would beat who.

i agee with what you say, Top 10s are opinions and `Not carved in Stone`... some have said Sonny Liston does not make their Top 10 yet guys like Vitali, Lewis, Jeffries, Wills & Walcott do, i cannot go along with that view, IMO Liston would simply walk right through those guys, Liston was a very good boxer when needed, yet never had to box in most fights simply because he had his opponents beaten before the 1st bell by `FEAR` Liston was an incredible physical speciman, "Huge-hands, telescopic-reach, knock-out drops in both hands, a chin made of granite, a stare like a laser-beam... many thought Liston would be champion for life`... if ever there was a heavyweight champion who was a certainty to be in the ATG Top 10 it was Charles`Sonny`Liston.

[GJC]

i agee with what you say, Top 10s are opinions and `Not carved in Stone`... some have said Sonny Liston does not make their Top 10 yet guys like Vitali, Lewis, Jeffries, Wills & Walcott do, i cannot go along with that view, IMO Liston would simply walk right through those guys, Liston was a very good boxer when needed, yet never had to box in most fights simply because he had his opponents beaten before the 1st bell by `FEAR` Liston was an incredible physical speciman, "Huge-hands, telescopic-reach, knock-out drops in both hands, a chin made of granite, a stare like a laser-beam... many thought Liston would be champion for life`... if ever there was a heavyweight champion who was a certainty to be in the ATG Top 10 it was Charles`Sonny`Liston.

I agree, I think for people who wern't around at that time they underestimate how terryfying Liston was and just remember Ali taunting him

[GJC]

I've never really liked making hard and fast top 10s. There's a whole lot of problem making them. The biggest problem I face are match-ups. I'm a believer in "styles makes fights." I think that Marciano would give Ali problems in the same way that Frazier gave Ali problems. But does that mean that Marciano was better than Ali. Hell No. So Marciano would be below Ali. I think that Foreman would always KO Frazier, but does that make him better? No. Frazier and Marciano (IMHO) would always give Louis and Ali problems, but Ali and Louis would beat the clubbing, wide-armed Foreman. I hate ranking fighters by match-ups. Too problematic and ultimately we'll never know.

I place Foreman as a top 10, but barely. In my mind Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali are definately better than George Foreman. They are -- in my opinion -- definately top 5 heavyweights.

But there are at least 5 or 6 other fighters -- if not more -- who are borderline top 10 heavyweights with Foreman. Jim Jeffries, Rocky Marciano, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson and George Foreman are top 10 fighters. But a case can be made for Jersey Joe, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis.

I think Jersey Joe would beat Foreman -- but as said before I don't like judging TOP 10 lists by who would beat who.

Good post I agree with most of that

[Calilloyd]

I believe his underrated in his first career but I do find hard to place him in the all time top ten based on just part of his career. Add to it the miracle comeback and he's in.

I agree with you. He had huge wins in the first part of his career but he left too early. That would leave him off the top 10 for me. But his comeback put him right back up there. Within top 5 IMO.

[Calilloyd]

Foreman was considered a monster -- but then so was Sonny Liston and Liston barely makes anyone's top 10.

If Foreman is a top 10 who among the following does he displace?

Jim Jeffries (maybe / yes)
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney (maybe)
Joe Louis
Jersey Joe Walcott (yes)
Ezzard Charles (yes)
Marciano (maybe) -- NOT TALKING ABOUT MATCH-UP
Floyd Patterson (maybe)
Sonny Liston (yes)
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier (yes) -- NOT TALKING ABOUT MATCH-UP
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield (maybe)
Lennox Lewis (maybe)






In my opinion Foreman was a border-line top 10 fighter based on his 1970s career.

No way did Dempsey, Tunney or Pattterson accomplish more at heavyweight than Foreman. That's ridiculous. Dempsey defended his title 5 times in seven years. And the only truly top notch fighter he fought, he lost to. Dempsey never beat anybody on Joe Frazier's level. He lost to fighters like Willie Meehan. Not to mention he never fought Harry Wills. That would be like Foreman not fighting Norton. Tunney doesnt have enough wins at heavyweight to rate over Foreman. And Patterson got knocked out twice as heavyweight champion. He was knocked out twice in the first by Liston. None of those fighters careers surpass Foremans as a heavyweight. Or even match it. Theres nothing borderline about Foreman being top 10 unless you're using different standards for him that you're not using for other fighters.

[Calilloyd]

I've never really liked making hard and fast top 10s. There's a whole lot of problem making them. The biggest problem I face are match-ups. I'm a believer in "styles makes fights." I think that Marciano would give Ali problems in the same way that Frazier gave Ali problems. But does that mean that Marciano was better than Ali. Hell No. So Marciano would be below Ali. I think that Foreman would always KO Frazier, but does that make him better? No. Frazier and Marciano (IMHO) would always give Louis and Ali problems, but Ali and Louis would beat the clubbing, wide-armed Foreman. I hate ranking fighters by match-ups. Too problematic and ultimately we'll never know.

I place Foreman as a top 10, but barely. In my mind Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali are definately better than George Foreman. They are -- in my opinion -- definately top 5 heavyweights.

But there are at least 5 or 6 other fighters -- if not more -- who are borderline top 10 heavyweights with Foreman. Jim Jeffries, Rocky Marciano, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson and George Foreman are top 10 fighters. But a case can be made for Jersey Joe, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis.

I think Jersey Joe would beat Foreman -- but as said before I don't like judging TOP 10 lists by who would beat who.

No way. Jersey Joe would go any time Foreman connected. Jersy Joe would be giving away too m uch size and strength. Walcott was knocked out by Abe Simon. So how is going to beat Foreman?

[bojangles1987]

I don't know, he basically would be like Tyson to me if he hadn't come back, a guy that is an ATG heavyweight just because of what he did combined with his immense ability. Maybe as far as resume he wouldn't make top 10 but I couldn't name 10 heavyweights I would pick over 70's George Foreman.