Pick a fighter, make an argument

[JAB5239]

I thought of an idea that could create some great debate and historical analysis.

Excluding Sugar Ray Robinson or Henry Armstrong from this entire thread, pick a fighter and make an argument why they should be ranked the best p4p fighter ever.

I'll start by picking Harry Greb.

Greb beat a who's who of great fighters during his era, including giving Gene Tunney his only loss. Never accused of ducking anybody, but it has often been said that heavyweight champ Jack Dempsey ducked him.

[Stoppage]

Muhamamd Ali. Beat the best heavyweights during the '60s and '70s that includes several all-time great heavyweights. Was nearly unbeatable in his prime.

[JAB5239]

Muhamamd Ali. Beat the best heavyweights during the '60s and '70s that includes several all-time great heavyweights. Was nearly unbeatable in his prime.

Ok, here's where the fun starts.

Im going to discredit Ali in favor of Harry Greb. This is by no means a knock on any fighters, only an entertaining exercise in boxing history.

while Ali resume is superb, it isn't quite as good as Grebs and he was in entirely to many controversial fights to be considered number one. In his prime he was almost put out by a small Henry Cooper and given fits by Doug Jones.

On the other hand, Harry Greb was taking it to all the top fighters of the day all the way from middleweight to heavyweight.

[Stoppage]

Ok, here's where the fun starts.

Im going to discredit Ali in favor of Harry Greb. This is by no means a knock on any fighters, only an entertaining exercise in boxing history.

while Ali resume is superb, it isn't quite as good as Grebs and he was in entirely to many controversial fights to be considered number one. In his prime he was almost put out by a small Henry Cooper and given fits by Doug Jones.

On the other hand, Harry Greb was taking it to all the top fighters of the day all the way from middleweight to heavyweight.

Maybe so. But at least he didn't get beat by the same fighter (Tunney) a billion times.

[JAB5239]

Maybe so. But at least he didn't get beat by the same fighter (Tunney) a billion times.

Gene Tunney is probably on most top 50 p4p lists and was also heavyweight champion. No shame in losing to him, but a great accomplishment just beating him.

[blacklodge]

Greb is hard to argue. But echoing another thread, I put forth Ezzard Charles. Greatest LH ever, dominated the entire decade of the 40s, beat Archie Moore 3 times (3-0), beat Joey Maxim 4 times (4-0), beat Charley Burley twice (2-0), etc. (long list of quality opponents). Never got a shot at the title at 175. Moved up to heavyweight, beat Jersey Joe Walcott for the vacant title, became the 2nd man to beat (faded) Joe Louis, then beat Walcott again. Lost to Walcott twice, then stuck around and challenged Rocky Marciano twice (by which time Lou Gehrig's Disease was setting in), and came as close as anyone to beating Marciano in their 2nd fight on cuts.
I have him at 3 behind Robinson and Armstrong. Ahead of Greb, Duran, and Pep.

[mickey malone]

Sam Langford could be argued on resume..

He faught from LW to HW with most of his fights being from MW to HW..

Here are the highlights of his career

Harry Wills x 23
Sam McVey x 15
Joe Jeannette x 14
Jim Barry x 12
Jeff Clark x 11
Jack Thompson x 9
Battling Jim Johnson x 12
Fireman Jim Flynn x 6
Bill Tate x 8
Young Peter Jackson x 4
Jack Blackburn x 4
Fred Fulton x 2
Dixie Kidd x 2
Larry Temple x 3
Gunboat Smith x 2
Phily Jack O'Brien
Iron William Hague
Willie Meehan
Kid Norfolk

With the exceptions of Wills, Barry, Meehan & Fulton, Langford had the better of all the above exchanges..

Most importantly, although never being allowed to fight for a title, here is his record of the world champs that he fought..

Won Joe Gans
Won Tiger Flowers
Won Stanley Ketchell
Drew Joe Walcott
Lost Jack Johnson

I'd say Langford was a P4P ATG, wouldn't you?

[JAB5239]

Sam Langford could be argued on resume..

He faught from LW to HW with most of his fights being from MW to HW..

Here are the highlights of his career

Harry Wills x 23
Sam McVey x 15
Joe Jeannette x 14
Jim Barry x 12
Jeff Clark x 11
Jack Thompson x 9
Battling Jim Johnson x 12
Fireman Jim Flynn x 6
Bill Tate x 8
Young Peter Jackson x 4
Jack Blackburn x 4
Fred Fulton x 2
Dixie Kidd x 2
Larry Temple x 3
Gunboat Smith x 2
Phily Jack O'Brien
Iron William Hague
Willie Meehan
Kid Norfolk

With the exceptions of Wills, Barry, Meehan & Fulton, Langford had the better of all the above exchanges..

Most importantly, although never being allowed to fight for a title, here is his record of the world champs that he fought..

Won Joe Gans
Won Tiger Flowers
Won Stanley Ketchell
Drew Joe Walcott
Lost Jack Johnson

I'd say Langford was a P4P ATG, wouldn't you?

Going on resume alone.....Langford is tough to argue.
I was actually waiting to see his name come up (how couldn't i?) to see the real arguments start. I'll attempt to present an argument tomorrow, bit intoxicated at the moment.

[Spartacus Sully]

Ummmmm bob fitzsimmons

first to win titles in middle light heavy and heavy. beat corrbet sharkey rulhin non parriell dempsey george gardner and almost beat chyonisky by ko if it wernt for the police. 45 out of 50 wins were ko's. ko'ed 7 men in one night 200+ and all over 6 foot only took 19 rounds.

notable battles with philly jack obrien and jim jeffries.

all at 5' 11 1/2" and weighing around 170

[GJC]

Going on resume alone.....Langford is tough to argue.
I was actually waiting to see his name come up (how couldn't i?) to see the real arguments start. I'll attempt to present an argument tomorrow, bit intoxicated at the moment.

Damn greb and langford gone, or can we double up? I'll have a go at langford over greb, harry was only blind in one eye when he lost to tiger flowers twice, Sam was blind in both eyes when he beat flowers