Tunney & Louis

[Mr Mitts]

It does not merely take a good boxer to beat Louis. The boxer must be a running, moving fighter with high ring IQ, fast educated feet and quick hands with enough punch to discourage Louis and and maybe KO him with a combination, also plenty of tools and intangibles, which reads like Gene Tunney in words.

Sure, Schmeling was a good boxer but not a runner. We want Louis of the second Conn anyway, and Tunney of the first Dempsey.

Before the first fight Schmeling told reporters in German accent, "I see somesing, but I won't tell." The version of Louis we are using vs Tunney will no longer have that flaw. I don't believe it would change the outcome vs Tunney anyway.

Unless Bivins et al and the others named in the Rocky-Tunney opponents vs opponents thread were fast runners and boxers of high talent and very durable besides, which I cannot say, they as good as didn't belong in the ring with Joe anyway, pathetically but realistically, even if they could score a flash KD now and then, which he proved multiple times in his career. But the fact that a few of them could does not augur well for him vs Gene, who would know exactly how to proceed, unlike a two ton Tony. Multiple series of brief combinations until his ring instinct tells him it is time to move in and finish. Otherwise he will proceed with appropriate pace and level of caution. Gene is smart enough in any situation short of unconsciousness to make good decisions, as he proved in 2nd Dempsey. You think he didn't?

The only man(?) who could disbelieve the last two sentences is already here, and of course insisting apparently that Tunney was too paralyzed to move, though he had already moved, correcting the awkward positioning of his right knee and repositioning his left knee to rise, all before the official count began. At count 3 he moved his gaze directly at the ref. Then he is aware enough to look around, clearing his head, before he springs up like a mule deer, barely beating the count.

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-OeeCfbahwQ" title="Jack Dempsey vs Gene Tunney - The Long Count (1927)" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Dr Z]

Bivins lost 25 times 9 of those losses came in the 50's when Biivins had slipped out of the ratings,and had been fighting 10 years or more. Charles had25 losses too
Walcott18.

Bivins beat;
Agramonte
Maxim
Bettina
Henry
DeJohn
Sheppard
Lesnevich
Pastor
Mauriello
Thompson
Murray
Williams
Wallace
Payne
Knox
Walker

Bivins was a talented battler who came to fight; At his heaviest, he was essentially a "beefed-up" light-heavyweight who tangled with the best of the big men - fighting champions and top contenders on a regular basis during his fifteen year career
Jimmy defeated such men as Joey Maxim, Bob Pastor, Tami Mauriello, Clarence Henry, Gus Lesnevich, Melio Bettina, Charley Burley, Lloyd Marshall, Billy Soose, Anton Christoforidis, Teddy Yarosz, Lee Savold, Pat Valentino, Lee Q. Murray, "Oakland" Billy Smith, Booker Beckwith, Buddy Scott, Jack "Buddy" Walker, Yancey Henry, Albert "Turkey" Thompson, Johnny Haynes, Willie Bean, Rusty Payne, Leonard Morrow and Coley Wallace

Herb Goldman ranked Bivins as the #8 All-Time Light-Heavyweight; He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1999
Conn and Schmeling would have had their work cut out to beat a prime Jimmy Bivins.

Walcott only beat him on a split decision.
Bivins was down for an 8-count in round three. The official scoring was 6-4 for Bivins 9-1 for Walcott, and 5-4-1 for Bivins but the official with that scorecard gave the decision to Walcott because of the knockdown. .

Happy new year Ivich, er I mean Bronson. Be safe in 2025. I hear things are trending badly in England and the police are not being proactive. There is growing concern about declining public trust in the police due to perceived issues like a lack of visible presence, understaffing, and high-profile cases of police misconduct. Not to worry you are armed with a cane.

Bivins was a short man with very low KO % and was not a quick man like others who gave Louis trouble. He clinched very well though. Watch the films. I will leave it up to you to go over the men that Bivins did not beat ... all 26 or 27 times. I know you have the time. Go for it!

[Bronson66]

Happy new year Ivich, er I mean Bronson. Be safe in 2025. I hear things are trending badly in England and the police are not being proactive. There is growing concern about declining public trust in the police due to perceived issues like a lack of visible presence, understaffing, and high-profile cases of police misconduct. Not to worry you are armed with a cane.

Bivins was a short man with very low KO % and was not a quick man like others who gave Louis trouble. He clinched very well though. Watch the films. I will leave it up to you to go over the men that Bivins did not beat ... all 26 or 27 times. I know you have the time. Go for it!

Things in England appear to be okay and certainly safer than the US, we rarely have lunatics massacring school children etc. I don't need a cane I have 5 guns in my cabinet and some very large and capable Sons.
Take a look at the recent news in New Orleans and Vegas!

Bivins was a good hitter.
"Buddy Scott slept well last night at Griffith Stadium. It was only a 10-second snooze, but a sleeping pill administered by Jimmy Bivins utterly destroyed the myth that Buddy Scott couldn't be lulled into bye-bye land. Bivins put the tall Texan on the carpet once before putting him down for keeps. That was in the 2nd round when the crowd of some 5,000 fans, who paid $13,309.99, thought Buddy had retired for the night. In all, Scott lasted exactly 10 minutes and 56 seconds against the solid, rib-bending smashes of the Cleveland Negro. If Buddy had any illusion about being around to hear a decision announced, he was jarred out of it in that 2nd when Bivins cracked him with a right to the head. Scott did get up and unleash a flurry of pitty-pat punches that bounced harmlessly off Bivins' elbows and shoulders, but he simply had no defense for Bivins' left hook, straight left jab or the equally straight right." -Washington Evening Star.

"Jimmy Bivins of Cleveland, ranked by the NBA as the logical contender for the light heavyweight title held by Gus Lesnevich blasted out a 10 round decision over Ezzard Charles of Cincinnati here Thursday night. Bivins was all business last night as he floored Charles three times for a count of nine. Charles also took a count of two in the 8th of the scrap. Charles had an edge in the first two rounds and had Bivins down on one knee for a no-count in the 2nd, but Bivins started unleashing his heavy guns in the 3rd. Charles was felled for a nine count by a terrific left hook just before the end of the round. Both fighters started the 4th with a furious exchange but Bivins shook his opponent with two rights. Charles took another nine count and arose just before the bell. Bivins continued his attack in the 5th and this time a hard left sent Ezzard to the canvas for the third count of nine. Charles started fighting again in the 8th and concentrated his attack on Bivins' body. Jimmy rallied toward the close of the round and had Charles down on one knee for a toll of two as the bell rang. "
Bivins also floored.
Agramonte whom he stopped, something Louis could not do in 2 tries.
Sheppard
Moore x7 times
Charles x6 times
Bettina
Valentino
You seriously need to do some research.

Being short never hurt Marciano,Tua ,Galento , Langford, Tyson. when it came to power!

Bivins also had very long arms for his height , a 76 inch reach,the same as Louis and Tunney.

[BKM-]

Gonna have to agree with the two posters above. Tunney would get it done and I would boldly say that Tunney could even choose to win this comfortably. He has the ability to avoid risks and would certainly choose to in this kind of fight. His own gastank and endurance would offset Louis' patience and unbreakable spirit.

The thing is it's one thing to be a good boxer as a HW, but to be blessed with having feet to be fleetfooted on top of that is even more rare. Tunney was a rare talent, just look at all the decades before and after him to spot how many HW's were like him.

One time the great Muhammad Ali did a tv show where he would look at all the past HW champions before him and offer his critique. He badmouthed almost all of them including Louis. But he had the most respect as a boxer for Gene Tunney. You could really tell how quickly Ali dropped his act and paid a lot of attention offering details of Tunney's skills. That was pretty telling.

[Bronson66]

Happy new year Ivich, er I mean Bronson. Be safe in 2025. I hear things are trending badly in England and the police are not being proactive. There is growing concern about declining public trust in the police due to perceived issues like a lack of visible presence, understaffing, and high-profile cases of police misconduct. Not to worry you are armed with a cane.

Bivins was a short man with very low KO % and was not a quick man like others who gave Louis trouble. He clinched very well though. Watch the films. I will leave it up to you to go over the men that Bivins did not beat ... all 26 or 27 times. I know you have the time. Go for it!

How many fights of Bivins have you seen? He lost 25 times the same amount as Charles.

The UK is just fine,unlike the US!
.


.

I don't need a cane ,I have 5 guns in my cabinet, and some very large and capable Sons.

Bivins was a good hitter.
He floored
Charles 6 times
Moore 7 times
Floored and stopped Agramonte which Louis could not do in 2 tries
Floored
Valentino
Bettina
Scott
Haynes
Sheppard
Henry
Mauriello
Wallace ko
Bivins gave Wallace 16lbs and kod him with a single right hand to the chin,as can be seen Bivins had very long arms for his height,76 in reach,the same as Louis.

Being short never hindered the power of Langford,Marciano,Tua,Galento,Tyson,Frazier.
image.png

Moore was knocked down three times in the 2nd round. He was counted out on the 3rd trip down, but was hit with an uppercut while he was on the floor. The judges decided to give Moore a five minute rest and awarded him the round on a foul. Moore was dropped twice more in the 5th, and once more in the 6th for the count.

"Jimmy Bivins of Cleveland, ranked by the NBA as the logical contender for the light heavyweight title held by Gus Lesnevich blasted out a 10 round decision over Ezzard Charles of Cincinnati here Thursday night. Bivins was all business last night as he floored Charles three times for a count of nine. Charles also took a count of two in the 8th of the scrap. Charles had an edge in the first two rounds and had Bivins down on one knee for a no-count in the 2nd, but Bivins started unleashing his heavy guns in the 3rd. Charles was felled for a nine count by a terrific left hook just before the end of the round. Both fighters started the 4th with a furious exchange but Bivins shook his opponent with two rights. Charles took another nine count and arose just before the bell. Bivins continued his attack in the 5th and this time a hard left sent Ezzard to the canvas for the third count of nine. Charles started fighting again in the 8th and concentrated his attack on Bivins' body. Jimmy rallied toward the close of the round and had Charles down on one knee for a toll of two as the bell rang."
You seriously need to do some research!
While you are at it , look up how many punches Wilder threw in the 1st round of his 2nd fight against Ortiz.
It was 31 not 120 as you stated,of course you will as usual, ignore the correction.LOL

[Marchegiano]

Personally, I would have to bet on Tunney--that he would finish what Conn started. Gene had a similar style and was better and bigger than Conn. Using the same blueprint he only needs to exploit what Conn already exposed.

A little more of what already failed.

[Mr Mitts]

A little more of what already failed.

No, I say a lot more in every single category except speed, where they appear to be about the same.

[Bronson66]

It does not merely take a good boxer to beat Louis. The boxer must be a running, moving fighter with high ring IQ, fast educated feet and quick hands with enough punch to discourage Louis and and maybe KO him with a combination, also plenty of tools and intangibles, which reads like Gene Tunney in words.

Sure, Schmeling was a good boxer but not a runner. We want Louis of the second Conn anyway, and Tunney of the first Dempsey.

Before the first fight Schmeling told reporters in German accent, "I see somesing, but I won't tell." The version of Louis we are using vs Tunney will no longer have that flaw. I don't believe it would change the outcome vs Tunney anyway.

Unless Bivins et al and the others named in the Rocky-Tunney opponents vs opponents thread were fast runners and boxers of high talent and very durable besides, which I cannot say, they as good as didn't belong in the ring with Joe anyway, pathetically but realistically, even if they could score a flash KD now and then, which he proved multiple times in his career. But the fact that a few of them could does not augur well for him vs Gene, who would know exactly how to proceed, unlike a two ton Tony. Multiple series of brief combinations until his ring instinct tells him it is time to move in and finish. Otherwise he will proceed with appropriate pace and level of caution. Gene is smart enough in any situation short of unconsciousness to make good decisions, as he proved in 2nd Dempsey. You think he didn't?

The only man(?) who could disbelieve the last two sentences is already here, and of course insisting apparently that Tunney was too paralyzed to move, though he had already moved, correcting the awkward positioning of his right knee and repositioning his left knee to rise, all before the official count began. At count 3 he moved his gaze directly at the ref. Then he is aware enough to look around, clearing his head, before he springs up like a mule deer, barely beating the count.

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-OeeCfbahwQ" title="Jack Dempsey vs Gene Tunney - The Long Count (1927)" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Tunney was also dropped by Leo Houck.

[Dr Z]

[QUOTE=Bronson66;n32402620]
Things in England appear to be okay and certainly safer than the US, we rarely have lunatics massacring school children etc. I don't need a cane I have 5 guns in my cabinet and some very large and capable Sons.
Take a look at the recent news in New Orleans and Vegas!


Bivins, a good hitter? No he was not! Just get a hold of your marbles. His KO % ratio is a lowly 32%. It would be even lower with modern gloves.

No way shape or form should anyone reference him as his hitter by lumping him in the same boat with Marciano, Tua, or Tyson yet you try to justify who he was by listing them.

Bvins was but 5'9" tall, and had average speed for his size. And no real hitting power.


I know Dontay was wildly inaccurate and did not land as 100+ punches in a round. Really, I just wanted to throw you a new year's bone so you could claim a win for a change.


Open your eyes and ears old man. The London Bridge attack was not that long ago. The USA had New Orleans. Two things in common with the people who did these things were.... Besides having your 5 guns which are hunting rifles which are illegal to carry around except when you are hunting... you can always use your cane to walk around anywhere to fend off the numerous hoodlums in the UK.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=Dr Z;n32402779]

Things in England appear to be okay and certainly safer than the US, we rarely have lunatics massacring school children etc. I don't need a cane I have 5 guns in my cabinet and some very large and capable Sons.
Take a look at the recent news in New Orleans and Vegas!


Bivins, a good hitter? No he was not! Just get a hold of your marbles. His KO % ratio is a lowly 32%. It would be even lower with modern gloves.

No way shape or form should anyone reference him as his hitter by lumping him in the same boat with Marciano, Tua, or Tyson yet you try to justify who he was by listing them.

Bvins was but 5'9" tall, and had average speed for his size. And no real hitting power.


I know Dontay was wildly inaccurate and did not land as 100+ punches in a round. Really, I just wanted to throw you a new year's bone so you could claim a win for a change.


Open your eyes and ears old man. The London Bridge attack was not that long ago. The USA had New Orleans. Two things in common with the people who did these things were.... Besides having your 5 guns which are hunting rifles which are illegal to carry around except when you are hunting, you can always use your cane to walk around anywhere to fend off the numerous hoodlums in the UK.

Guys like Ike Williams and Bob Satterfield don't have good ko percentages but were know as very hard punchers. Going by some of the guys Bivins got out of there id say he fall into this category. Lamar Clarke has an almost 98% ko ratio. Does anyone really think he's that great of a puncher based on his competition?