Old School Boxing skills: The lost art of baiting head-movement in depth description

[them_apples]

I don't ever remember even arguing with Cauliflower it seems he just came out of the woodwork and started attacking my posts. Now he's got a friend in BKM. I don't go around name calling.

[Biledriver]

I think Archie Moore pretty much took the art to its pinnacle. Joe Louis, Ray Robinson, and Joe Walcott were all masters of using head feints to set up punches.

[QueensburyRules]

I don't ever remember even arguing with Cauliflower it seems he just came out of the woodwork and started attacking my posts. Now he's got a friend in BKM. I don't go around name calling.

- - He's a Broccoli wannabe...

[BKM-]

you are giving BKM a boner relax man.

I am gonna head to the gym again soon and prove what I am saying. Obviously talking about it means nothing and I understand that. I've been hard at work to prove my point however.

I think you take me the wrong way, if you were me you would be equally excited.

when I first got back in the gym I was out of shape, not fit at all. Still had great success in the gym sparring some top level guys and using some things I learned from old fighters.

this time around I am actually very fit though. We will see how it goes.

I am not someone to talk out of my ass, I understand if I catch a beating doing what I am doing I will be the first one to admit it - even on this forum.

I sincerely believe this time around I will make my point clear however. I feel in great shape.

like I said though time will tell.

obviously Ive been sparring for about 20 years now. I am lucky to have a close friend who was a pro with 30 fights (boxing and thai) to spar with for years and work on things.

I started back at it over a year ago and got in with a few too guys:

so syd vanderpool set me up to get hurt (the guy who fought hopkins) and my very first day put me in with a light heavyweight who had a record of 30-2. He pretended it was like old times and said he had lots of guys in my weight class to come spar with. I am lucky with that one, I took some good hits but still held my own. I hurt my right hand in his head trying to fight back so furiously. I was not in shape for this and actually had a big bruise on my forehead afterwards. The real issue was I was gassed out. My arrogance didn't take into account conditioning. The rest of the boxing community heard about this though and sort of shunned the man because what he did was not very safe.

then I went back to the drawing board and started working myself into shape as hard as I could. I sparred about 100 rounds and was working hard in other ways to develop my conditioning.

then another big coach invited me to spar (hes got a huge social account, wont drop any names). I went to that gym. He was good to me and put me in with the national champ within my weight class. This was a wash, I beat him up easy and he could do nothing to me. And now we are friends

a month later I hit a gym in another city that had the national champ at jr middle and a prospect who was 5-0.

the nationals was a south paw and landed a good left on me, then I shook off my nerves and proceeded to beat his ass, quite badly they took me out and I thought that was it. Then at the end I got to spar this ****y prospect, I beat him so bad I felt his legs sag and my own empathy stopped me from hurting him. After that the coach started calling me johnny which usually only friends call me that so I think he didnt expect the firepower I brought and was very impressed.

Another night, after working all day I dropped into this mexican gym in the evening. I had contacted him on Ig to get some rounds in. He had about 40 lbs on me. He came at me like a bull with all his student watching and tried to rip my head off. (He probably thought I was calling him out). The ring was very small and he did get me with a few good ones. I cleared my head though and was slipping well and making him miss. Then when he let his guard down I suckered him in and planted 2 right on his chin full power and jello legged him in front of his students. I not gonna lie I don't like the guy and saved my energy for later to get back at him for trying to rip my head off. He tried to fight back but I could tell he was wobbly and tired for the remainder of the round. That was the only time I actually got mad in the ring. I plan on getting in with him again though and really solving the puzzle once and for all.

Whats actually funny is sure, I may not be a real boxer. But they posted a photo on IG one day and all of them were holding up medals. 90% of them I had schooled at some point or another. And by schooled I mean they couldn't do anything with my style.

thats all I have so far. You should at least give me a bit of credit for trying to at least prove my point. Getting hit by light heavyweights while having no gas is not fun. As BKM states in every single post - I am not a large man. I stand 5 ft 7 and walk around at 135 (I have very low body fat though ) oh ya I forgot to mention syd also said 4 minute rounds. He really wanted to get me hurt it seems. I am fine though.

Oh my we got our own little Harry Greb here.

[billeau2]

you are giving BKM a boner relax man.

I am gonna head to the gym again soon and prove what I am saying. Obviously talking about it means nothing and I understand that. I've been hard at work to prove my point however.

I think you take me the wrong way, if you were me you would be equally excited.

when I first got back in the gym I was out of shape, not fit at all. Still had great success in the gym sparring some top level guys and using some things I learned from old fighters.

this time around I am actually very fit though. We will see how it goes.

I am not someone to talk out of my ass, I understand if I catch a beating doing what I am doing I will be the first one to admit it - even on this forum.

I sincerely believe this time around I will make my point clear however. I feel in great shape.

like I said though time will tell.

obviously Ive been sparring for about 20 years now. I am lucky to have a close friend who was a pro with 30 fights (boxing and thai) to spar with for years and work on things.

I started back at it over a year ago and got in with a few too guys:

so syd vanderpool set me up to get hurt (the guy who fought hopkins) and my very first day put me in with a light heavyweight who had a record of 30-2. He pretended it was like old times and said he had lots of guys in my weight class to come spar with. I am lucky with that one, I took some good hits but still held my own. I hurt my right hand in his head trying to fight back so furiously. I was not in shape for this and actually had a big bruise on my forehead afterwards. The real issue was I was gassed out. My arrogance didn't take into account conditioning. The rest of the boxing community heard about this though and sort of shunned the man because what he did was not very safe.

then I went back to the drawing board and started working myself into shape as hard as I could. I sparred about 100 rounds and was working hard in other ways to develop my conditioning.

then another big coach invited me to spar (hes got a huge social account, wont drop any names). I went to that gym. He was good to me and put me in with the national champ within my weight class. This was a wash, I beat him up easy and he could do nothing to me. And now we are friends

a month later I hit a gym in another city that had the national champ at jr middle and a prospect who was 5-0.

the nationals was a south paw and landed a good left on me, then I shook off my nerves and proceeded to beat his ass, quite badly they took me out and I thought that was it. Then at the end I got to spar this ****y prospect, I beat him so bad I felt his legs sag and my own empathy stopped me from hurting him. After that the coach started calling me johnny which usually only friends call me that so I think he didnt expect the firepower I brought and was very impressed.

Another night, after working all day I dropped into this mexican gym in the evening. I had contacted him on Ig to get some rounds in. He had about 40 lbs on me. He came at me like a bull with all his student watching and tried to rip my head off. (He probably thought I was calling him out). The ring was very small and he did get me with a few good ones. I cleared my head though and was slipping well and making him miss. Then when he let his guard down I suckered him in and planted 2 right on his chin full power and jello legged him in front of his students. I not gonna lie I don't like the guy and saved my energy for later to get back at him for trying to rip my head off. He tried to fight back but I could tell he was wobbly and tired for the remainder of the round. That was the only time I actually got mad in the ring. I plan on getting in with him again though and really solving the puzzle once and for all.

Whats actually funny is sure, I may not be a real boxer. But they posted a photo on IG one day and all of them were holding up medals. 90% of them I had schooled at some point or another. And by schooled I mean they couldn't do anything with my style.

thats all I have so far. You should at least give me a bit of credit for trying to at least prove my point. Getting hit by light heavyweights while having no gas is not fun. As BKM states in every single post - I am not a large man. I stand 5 ft 7 and walk around at 135 (I have very low body fat though ) oh ya I forgot to mention syd also said 4 minute rounds. He really wanted to get me hurt it seems. I am fine though.

Good for you Apple! That is the best way to do it. You tell your partner "if you want to really help me, destroy me in the ring, that way I know if I am on the right track, or not." Do it while you can! I trained that way for the first 30 years, or so as a martial artist, at 60 I have to really watch it now lol.

I don't know why you are misread. I like our entire little group here. I do think most people are unwilling, or feel threatened in a training environment (not a posting environment lol), to put their a s s on the line in the ring. But it is how progress is made. I have years of material from doing crazy things like having people come at me with knives, taking full contact blows to the body, etc. Not saying it was the smartest thing to do... and frankly? you are going about it in a very well organized way, which I started to do when I was probably older than you... after finally understanding that if I wanted to live to middle age, things had to change! It is my wish people would appreciate what you are doing to demonstrate some of the things that work, and do not work, in the ring.

[Bundana]

Good for you Apple! That is the best way to do it. You tell your partner "if you want to really help me, destroy me in the ring, that way I know if I am on the right track, or not." Do it while you can! I trained that way for the first 30 years, or so as a martial artist, at 60 I have to really watch it now lol.

I don't know why you are misread. I like our entire little group here. I do think most people are unwilling, or feel threatened in a training environment (not a posting environment lol), to put their a s s on the line in the ring. But it is how progress is made. I have years of material from doing crazy things like having people come at me with knives, taking full contact blows to the body, etc. Not saying it was the smartest thing to do... and frankly? you are going about it in a very well organized way, which I started to do when I was probably older than you... after finally understanding that if I wanted to live to middle age, things had to change! It is my wish people would appreciate what you are doing to demonstrate some of the things that work, and do not work, in the ring.

I get the feeling, that apples is an intelligent young man, who knows a fair bit about boxing and its history. And kudos to him for trying out different things in the gym, to see what works, and what doesn't. Also, studying old films, to get an idea of what the oldtimers where all about - well, that's of course great too.

My beef with him is, that underlying all his analyses and opinions - there is this never-ending crusade against precent-day fighters! It's all about how poor they are, and how much they have lost (just look at the title of this thread), skill-wise, compared to the oldtimers.

And who can forget his thread from a couple of years ago: A key point that proves oldschool fighters were tougher and better chinned (which in itself is of course unprovable) -where he, page after page, explains how today's boxers are hopelessly inferior to those from the old days, with all kinds of outlandish claims.

As I said, apples is not a ****** guy - but wouldn't it be great, if he could cut down a bit on the absurd denigration of modern boxers?

[billeau2]

I get the feeling, that apples is an intelligent young man, who knows a fair bit about boxing and its history. And kudos to him for trying out different things in the gym, to see what works, and what doesn't. Also, studying old films, to get an idea of what the oldtimers where all about - well, that's of course great too.

My beef with him is, that underlying all his analyses and opinions - there is this never-ending crusade against precent-day fighters! It's all about how poor they are, and how much they have lost (just look at the title of this thread), skill-wise, compared to the oldtimers.

And who can forget his thread from a couple of years ago: A key point that proves oldschool fighters were tougher and better chinned (which in itself is of course unprovable) -where he, page after page, explains how today's boxers are hopelessly inferior to those from the old days, with all kinds of outlandish claims.

As I said, apples is not a ****** guy - but wouldn't it be great, if he could cut down a bit on the absurd denigration of modern boxers?

Yeah but to be fair. Those comments about fighters today are usually based on watching specific things. I think you guys call him out on that criticism a lot more than he actually puts it forth. That's just my opinion. Sometimes when you watch these guys looking like too whales it's a natural kind of a response lol.

[Bundana]

Yeah but to be fair. Those comments about fighters today are usually based on watching specific things. I think you guys call him out on that criticism a lot more than he actually puts it forth. That's just my opinion. Sometimes when you watch these guys looking like too whales it's a natural kind of a response lol.

Are you saying, that you don't find many (most!) of his anti-modern opinions a bit bizarre?

Some of the weirdest opinions I have seen here include:

That most new fighters have glass jaws.

That most boxers today have less heart than in the old days.

That most new school fighters fight like amateurs and have no real concept what a knockout artist is.

That modern fighters box like stiff robots.

That today's boxers often pull their punches, as a result of too much pad-work (?).

That Lennox is using amateur style punches.

That Bivol and Canelo don't know how to actually fight compared to better fighters of the past.

That modern fighters gas after 4 and only look good for 2 rounds.

And one of my favourites: That modern boxers have thinner sculls than the oldtimers (LOL).

[QueensburyRules]

Are you saying, that you don't find many (most!) of his anti-modern opinions a bit bizarre?

Some of the weirdest opinions I have seen here include:

That most new fighters have glass jaws.

That most boxers today have less heart than in the old days.

That most new school fighters fight like amateurs and have no real concept what a knockout artist is.

That modern fighters box like stiff robots.

That today's boxers often pull their punches, as a result of too much pad-work (?).

That Lennox is using amateur style punches.

That Bivol and Canelo don't know how to actually fight compared to better fighters of the past.

That modern fighters gas after 4 and only look good for 2 rounds.

And one of my favourites: That modern boxers have thinner sculls than the oldtimers (LOL).

- - A Paper thin skull and jaw explains Apple to a T...

[billeau2]

Are you saying, that you don't find many (most!) of his anti-modern opinions a bit bizarre?

Some of the weirdest opinions I have seen here include:

That most new fighters have glass jaws.

That most boxers today have less heart than in the old days.

That most new school fighters fight like amateurs and have no real concept what a knockout artist is.

That modern fighters box like stiff robots.

That today's boxers often pull their punches, as a result of too much pad-work (?).

That Lennox is using amateur style punches.

That Bivol and Canelo don't know how to actually fight compared to better fighters of the past.

That modern fighters gas after 4 and only look good for 2 rounds.

And one of my favourites: That modern boxers have thinner sculls than the oldtimers (LOL).

I just think these comments are more "few and far between" than warrant constant attention. Two of them do have some merit.

There are a lot of new fighters who fight in the amatuer style... It is true. Not even a criticism so much as an observation.

Also, a lot of fighters do gas early... And it makes no sense.